Rebecca
Hey Nat.

Natalie
Hey Bec.

Rebecca
How are you?

Natalie
I am well. This morning, I made another crustless quiche. Remember, wasn’t it a couple Instagram Stories ago, I posted a really beautiful picture of a crustless quiche that was made with — I forget what green was in it, but this morning it was broccoli. You know who I was channeling? I was channeling our cousin Darlene with her recipe, but this time it was quiche as opposed to pie.

Rebecca
So did you add sausage?

Natalie
No, the only thing that was Darlene was the broccoli that I added. It was a completely vegetarian crustless quiche. Anyways, I didn’t take a picture, because it got eaten, and I figured people have heard enough.

Rebecca
Oh, I can never get too many photos of your crustless quiches, Nat.

Natalie
How are you?

Rebecca
I’m good. Did I tell you? I just think this is kind of funny — do you know that mom is worried about my posture? My posture in particular.

Natalie
I didn’t know that.

Rebecca
But not yours. Your posture’s fine. My posture is troubling to her.

Natalie
That’s interesting. So she’s pondering you.

Rebecca
Yeah.

Natalie
And your posture.

Rebecca
I went to see an osteopath this week.

Natalie
Wow, so mom said one thing and you were out to the doctor?

Rebecca
She said one thing and I took action. It doesn’t take much.

Natalie
Mom, you have a lot of power. I love that.

Rebecca
Yeah, actually, I was amazed that I sprung into action like that. So it obviously was in my subconscious.

Natalie
That you needed to stand a little straighter.

Rebecca
And now I realize that if I just elevate my breastbone slightly — that’s what I learned.

Natalie
Ok, I’m doing that right now. You know what, it’s true.

Rebecca
I was trying to do one of those pilates — like, ‘think myself up higher,’ and then I was doing that for the osteo, and he was like, “I don’t see anything.” The last two years I’ve been thinking myself up through just a thought, because that’s what we did in theatre school. “Just think yourself higher.”

Natalie
But didn’t you kind of want to say to the Osteopath, “I also don’t see anything you do?”

Rebecca
No, but you know what? I could see the difference — I could see it for him.

Natalie
We’re both in the same place here, sir.

Rebecca
No no, I could see it, Nat. His breastbone was elevated, and I could see how it was affecting his head.

Natalie
Alright, fair enough. I’m just saying what he’s doing to you — the osteo mystery, to me, is that I don’t actually understand a lot of what they do.

Rebecca
Oh, I see what you’re saying.

Natalie
I know that there’s much being done, at least it is said — but I don’t see it. It’s not one that’s seen.

Rebecca
Oh, yeah. It’s not like the chiropractor that cranks you into shape. And Simon, whenever I come home from the osteo, he’s like, “So what did he do?” And I was like, “Nothing. He didn’t do anything. He put his hands on my shoulders, that’s it.”

Natalie
“He stood close and I felt cared for, so that’s what it is.”

Rebecca
No, but I believe it, so I believe he’s subtly adjusting things.

Natalie
This is not disbelief in my voice, Rebecca, it is just the comedy of errors that is self-care and wellness. Oh my goodness, there’s been much down the road of negativity in self-care and wellness these last couple days in our social media feeds, as observed lots of people being called out for their…

Rebecca
What in particular are you thinking of? Do tell.

Natalie
The white wellness vegan Instagram debacle.

Rebecca
Oh, yes — Oh She Glows.

Natalie
As related to the — what are they calling it, what is the horrible set of truckers? The freedom convoy, quote unquote.

Rebecca
So apparently, Oh She Glows is an anti-vaxxer supporter of the freedom trackers.

Natalie
Yeah, which is horrible because — I mean, it’s so horrible on so many levels. But when we know that actually the number of truckers who are involved with this convoy is so small — so many more of them are actually fully legitimately vaxxed and also just doing their part to keep people healthy including themselves. It’s just so ugly, there’s so much ugliness coming out right now. The very thinly-veiled cloaking of that kind of language of self-care coming out of that field is jarring. So anyways, I’m not in any way dissing your time spent with your osteo, just my mind jumps from there to there to there quite quickly.

Rebecca
Yeah.

Natalie
Ok, so Bec. Remember that we needed to reframe our new year’s resolutions. That was like an episode maybe, I don’t know, ten ago? It feels like ten.

Rebecca
It feels like years ago. Years ago, we talked about reframing our new year’s resolutions. Yes. Every time I would write it and send it to someone — I think mom, couple times, she went “Revolutions? Don’t you mean resolutions?” And every time I’d be like, “No! I mean revolutions.”

Natalie
Purposefully! Change the letters.

Rebecca
Yes. And I could just see her raising her eyebrows, going, “Ok…”

Natalie
Well, there’s a joke on Twitter right now about how, now that January is finished and we’ve started into February, that basically everybody wants to reject January and give it back and start the new year in February — because January was such a gong show.

Rebecca
A lockdown shitshow.

Natalie
Yeah, essentially. So we could do a whole new ‘new year’s revolutions’ episode just to do with February. We can honestly spend today maybe reframing our January fatigue — because it has been a bit of a shitshow — into something like February gratitude.

Rebecca
I’m laughing because I really like it, although it’s not that catchy.

Natalie
Ok, I have to come up with a title. I’ll work on that.

Rebecca
You’re really good with titles on the spot, Nat. We need an alliteration.

Natalie
I know, I need something with an ‘F’. Maybe somebody will come back to us with this as a text message or as a voice note or something — some sort of feedback. February feedback — ooh. The feedback loop that we need to get into that’s positive. February’s positive feedback loop.

Rebecca
Ok, I like that. So how do we do it? Because gratitude can be challenging. For example, we were cross-country skiing this weekend. Violet is just learning — we’re all just learning, essentially. She was falling a lot, and at a certain point, she was just like, “This is the worst! Life is the worst for me! Why am I the only one crying? My life is awful.” I’m saying it a little bit quietly because she’s upstairs. I was watching her have this really dramatic, glorious meltdown, and just thinking, “What should I be doing here? Why are we not standing around praising the snow, and the beauty of our surroundings? We’re not being very grateful.” Anyway, it was a challenge — it was reminding me how hard gratitude is.

Natalie
Because of life’s challenges in the midst of everything falling — whether it’s falling down on skis, or…

Rebecca
I’m just setting that up for us, that gratitude, but anything else for you about February?

Natalie
As a teacher, I’m obviously extra-conscious of it being Black History Month — I mean, I’m doing that type of amplification work with black authors and black thinkers and black philosophers all the time in my English courses. It’s a really great area of study to be bringing tons and tons of voices into the space. But I know I’ve got tons of colleagues doing the same work in their math classes and in their science classes. So I feel really grateful to be working in a school board that emphasizes the need to be vocal about making sure that we’re looking at history, and looking forward through history to be able to make changes for students. So I’m feeling pretty grateful in that way. And I don’t know, for myself, I’ve got a cool article coming out, in Chatelaine of all places, and I’ve written about being grateful for cartoons.

Rebecca
I’m excited for this.

Natalie
Yeah, I’ll share it with you obviously when it’s out, but I’m pretty excited about it because it’s writing about something that I really feel — I really feel really grateful for the cartoon watching that Frankie and Clifford and I have been doing for the last two years of the pandemic, every night. It’s been a lot of animated television.

Rebecca
Yeah, you guys are so devoted. And also interesting Nat, you’re becoming a freelance writer, is that what I hear?

Natalie
Yeah, it is pretty exciting. I’m enjoying this process. I have another couple pieces coming out. So yeah, I’m feeling good. So that’s a grateful headspace to be in. New opportunities, right.

Rebecca
Yeah. Well, we’ll have to come back to that, many more times. But you had listened to a very specific podcast that twigged you to thinking about gratitude in a different way, right?

Natalie
Yeah. So I listened to this podcast called The Huberman Lab — and I haven’t gone back and listened to more of his episodes, this is not in any way me promoting somebody else’s scientific space, I think he’s smart and interesting, but one would have to follow and decide if they want to go down the road and listen to this very specific MIT prof who I think has quite the following.

Rebecca
So you’re not endorsing him, but you did listen?

Natalie
But I did listen.

Rebecca
And you’re not not endorsing him?

Natalie
Yeah, I just don’t want people to think that — there’s no promo here.

Rebecca
Ok, side note. First, we wanted to mention that about our Patreon page.

Natalie
Yeah, we don’t have ads yet, people. We have no ads, because you have to get to a certain level of downloads. And we’re very excited that we’re at where we’re at. We’re creeping, but you don’t get ads until you’re at a high enough level that the ad companies will say, “Oh, well, now we might use that specific place to amplify our product.” So at this point, this is a self-funded project of love. And we really do love it, but it would be amazing if we could get to the place where we could actually have some monetary support to be able to keep making sure that this gets to happen. Because it’s costing you, Rebecca (quite specifically), out of pocket right now. So we’ve started a Patreon page.

Rebecca
So we will link to it, and if you feel compelled at all to tip us…

Natalie
Yeah, there’s a tip jar.

Rebecca
That was tip level. And then if you want some of our merchandise that’s coming out, Nat’s going to do a recipe ebook. I’m excited about that, Nat.

Natalie
I’m so pleased that you’re excited about that. And we’re also doing something which I’m pretty pumped about, which is going to be basically reframe cards.

Rebecca
Oh, yes. Our reframe deck.

Natalie
Yeah, it’s a reframe deck. So that people could pull it out and use it with their kids, their families…

Rebecca
You could be on the ski hill, the cross-country trail, and you could be like, “You know what we need to do right now? We need to pull out the reframe deck.” Because why not? Actually, we had packed a little backpack for our little travels yesterday, and in it Violet had thrown in the multiplication cards flash deck. I was like “Why?”

Natalie
Cause you never know.

Rebecca
Yeah, you never know when you want to multiply sevens. But why would we not reframe?

Natalie
Right, exactly — right there on the hill. It was cross country, right? So very few hills.

Rebecca
It was very flat, and it’s a lot of hard work, and that makes Violet sad.

Natalie
Reframing is probably really necessary. So anyways, back to The Huberman Lab (which I’m not advertising for). Here we go. I was listening to this one piece because I was inspired by his title, which was much more effective than the title I gave today thus far. And it was ‘Reframing Gratitude’ — well actually, he didn’t use the word ‘reframe,’ but it was definitely about gratitude, and looking at rejigging it. Basically, he has said that as a doctor/scientist, he has learned from reading a bunch of different brain psychology studies that his own gratitude practice — which is the one that most of us have tried, you know, gratitude journaling, you wake up in the morning, you write down five things that you feel grateful for, and then you move on with your day, and you expect that now your brain has made you happier, you’re now more grateful, and therefore you’re good to go. Well actually, he found out from reading all these various studies that what he was doing in his own gratitude practice was not actually rewiring his brain.

If you think back to that Johnny Crowder episode that we did, where he was talking about the science of literally needing to rewire the brain, I think it was just tweaking for me. I was like, “Ok, I need to think about this concept a little bit more. How do I go into February, March, April, a little bit more grateful, and what is a way that I could do that?” So, Huberman said that these robust studies (and that’s his word, so that’s something that he really believes in, these very specific scientific studies, and gives all the deets, so one could go further and look back at the science) — he suggested that there’s something really specific that one can do. It resonated with me, I think again as an English teacher. Basically he said narrativity and gratitude are connected. So essentially, what’s required for a gratitude practice to be really effective is the giving and taking and sharing of stories.

Rebecca
Interesting. So just lying in bed with my kids and listing off five things we’re grateful for — that might not be effective enough. Can something be effective enough? It’s a little bit effective.

Natalie
Yeah, I think it can be good. He was not saying that it was bad. There was nothing bad about doing that, it’s still a good thing to do. But if one is really truly trying to effectively put a practice in place that’s going to change the self, that’s not going to do it.

Rebecca
Interesting. I actually had listened to this other podcast this weekend, which was all about storying. It was the James Altucher podcast.

Natalie
You sent it to me, I think. I have to listen to that one.

Rebecca
He was talking to some guy (I can link to it) about how the human brain is hard-wired for story. In this case, it can be a good or a bad thing. We’re always looking for the why. Why is something, what is the story here? You and me have even talked about that — that can be dangerous. We want to look for the single villain for a problem — this is happening in the world because of this certain villain, and sometimes we don’t like to think of things having a hundred causes. Like, it’s all these factors put together. That’s kind of a digression, but the point was that we love story. So in this case, this is a good thing, if we can find the story here. Can you go on about that a bit?

Natalie
Well, he got really specific about what chemicals were making what changes in the brain based on listening to stories, so I can leave that to people to go and listen to if they’re into the scientific details. In terms of narrativity, which I’ve got some expertise in, he said that what is required is a story of gratitude that you connect with. So the ultimate brain changer is to read or listen to a story of someone telling you what makes them grateful for you. So just to say, you’re a superhero — for anybody who’s out there who’s the type to send notes to people, because that person sitting there reading and recalling your positive words about them has the potential to not just give them a momentary boost. Huberman says that if that note that you sent is reread again and again, it actually has the power to change the receiver’s brain, which is pretty amazing.

Rebecca
Can we read that letter that your student wrote you? Because I want to do something great to your brain right now, Nat. You got this amazing email from one of your students. So I’m going to read it, ok?

Natalie
Ok, it makes me feel a bit shy. But yeah, ok.

Rebecca
Because it’s so beautiful, and this will right now be rewiring your brain. We’re going to see it in action.

Natalie
And you know what, it probably is rewiring my brain because I already know the letter, and it was such a moving letter to receive that I can already picture some of the things that she said. It’s already in there, which is pretty cool.

Rebecca
Ok, then you have to tell us like, did you get shivers — you have to tell us your bodily sensations afterwards, ok?

Natalie
Ok, I’ll try.

Rebecca
Ok.

“Hello Ms Davey,

“You made the whole class cry with your sweet words and as if you haven’t cried enough this semester I hope you have enough tears for one more time.

“When I tell you’re my favourite teacher ever, I am dead serious. You’re like this lovely ball of sunshine that just illuminates people when you meet them. I love how emotional you are, and when I see you be vulnerable I can’t help but follow. I’m not even kidding. When we started this year I had a whole conversation with my friend about thinking of going back to school because I wanted to be in your physical class so much, but once we got into the regular schedule I was so amazed at how close I felt to you even though I’m sitting so far away.

“You always have this way of showing people how much you care, your sweet personality shows through, the way you’re always telling us you’re proud of us. You have so much faith in us and our potential. And as someone who doesn’t have any real adult figures in her life, as someone who doesn’t have anybody to look up to, I quickly found that you were that person. I’d like to be you when I grow up. You never know what someone’s going through and the fact you never hesitate to tell us you love us just made me feel so nice. That it came so naturally to you to have this love, and not know what to do with it, but you can’t keep it in, so it just comes in in large waves, of how proud you are. It just felt the same as being hugged and told you were going to be alright.

“In every assignment, I was so eager to see what you had to say, and what correction you would make because I wanted to make you proud and better myself because of your example. It was so anxiety-inducing but it was nice somehow, being a bit on edge to see how you would react but being thrilled to know I would learn something new through mistakes. I haven’t felt that desire to learn in so long and was so surprised by how much I seemed to shake from it.

“English teachers are the backbone of society, and I brag about you to every person I can. How my English teacher is a saint and how I never felt stressed in that class. Being in your class was like a breath of fresh air and I really hope we never lose touch because you are the type of mentor I want to keep in my life.

“You are the best teacher I have ever had and I need you to know you are loved and cherished.

“Thank you, Ms!”

That is an amazing letter. Oh my gosh.

Natalie
Yeah. I’m crying. She’s an amazing kid.

Rebecca
So what does it do to you?

Natalie
Oh my goodness. Well, it obviously it makes me feel really emotional. She’s an amazing human. She’s been home for virtual school, because she’s been taking care of her 18-month-old little brother. So she’s been doing school whilst mothering, essentially. And that’s been pretty wild, because I could sometimes hear him. She was the type of person that I would like to be like a city councillor or a trustee or something, because she just had such an effective voice at being able to name needs in her own community, and who was around her. The fact that she shared all those words with me, for me, felt like such a gift because I don’t even feel like I deserved it.

Rebecca
You don’t want to have been like, “Wow! I did!”

Natalie
When she called me a saint, I’m like, “What?!” It’s such a lovely…

Rebecca
That’s so touching that she views you that way.

Natalie
I think what it did do for me was validate my vulnerability in a space like a class, because there have been moments where that hasn’t felt — in the moment — like, it’s been the right thing. Maybe I’ve overshared — no, one has to balance with the sharing, it’s not about oversharing as much as just maybe I’ve over-emoted. So to have a young woman with such grace and poise able to say to me that that sharing, that vulnerability, that was role modeling for her, gives me the desire to do it again. I’m not going to stop trying to be emotional in that space.

Rebecca
And what she’s picking up from you is that you are so proud of them, and believe in their potential. That actually could make me weep. I feel like in my life, even right now, I just want an ally. I feel that I have that in you, but I think in my particular career — someone who will just be my support system. So she’s really looking for the same thing. Someone that will believe in me, and she’s getting that from you.

Natalie
Yeah. It’s humanizing, isn’t it. Obviously, it’s a human desire. We’ve talked about that, like in our mentorship episode. It’s something we long for.

Rebecca
So do you feel different now? If you read this every day, what would that do to you?

Natalie
I think that it is very good for me to read and reread that note, because there are days when one can just get down. Whether it’s in the profession itself or just in life, right. Digging my car out last Friday to get ready to go into work, and just feeling like a failure because I was five minutes late, and had to get Tamara to open my door — it was just all the things. I probably should have been listening to that note on the drive in, as opposed to a stupid news thing about the freedom convoy, because it would have been better for my brain. So yeah, I think it’s definitely good for me to keep listening to those words.

Rebecca
Ok, but what if we don’t have one of these notes? I’m thinking, what do I have in my life? I need my drawer full of notes, and to go back and collect all my emails. What would you say to that, or what would this Huberman guy?

Natalie
Well, so what he said was, to feel that same kind of like physiological change in your own brain — if you don’t happen to have one of these personal notes from someone handy — it is actually possible, and it requires a connection to someone else’s experience of gratitude that you can a) relate to, and then b) return to. So the example that Huberman gave was of a study where participants listened to a story told by a genocide survivor, expressing gratitude for the life-saving measures taken by another. So it’s very dramatic, a very big story. But the participant listeners of that study heard this story, and even though none of them had experienced this same reality, the brain activity that was being measured by the study showed the same activity that was being shown when they were reading a personal note that was expressing gratitude of them. So it was the same brain activity. So the idea is that when we search out stories of gratitude and really listen to them, they do have the power to change us — ‘from the inside out’ changes.

Rebecca
The first thing that makes me think of is that it’s so important what we fill our brains with.

Natalie
I think so, too.

Rebecca
Right? Because we are changing our brains one way or another. Mom had said this quote to me this weekend (so many mom things, mom just influencing me in every direction!) — this one was really beautiful. She had quoted Annie Dillard in her book The Writing Life. Annie Dillard had written, “How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives. What we do with this hour, and that one, is what we are doing.” So that kind of resonated for me. What I fill my days with, that’s changing me or that’s in a certain direction. So if I want to be filled with gratitude, I have to go seek out gratitude stories.

Natalie
Yeah, well, that’s what this guy would say for sure.

Rebecca
So then, I also went back and looked for some stories on my shelf and I was reminded of — have you read Viktor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning? That’s such a crazy powerful book. I think a lot of people do know that story, but Viktor Frankl was in four different concentration camps, so he just lived a huge amount of suffering, but he still found meaning in his suffering and that’s what he observed in the people around him — those who could find meaning in their suffering were those who survived. So that’s really interesting too, right? He writes, “The one thing you can’t take away from me is the way I choose to respond to what you do to me. The last of one’s freedoms is to choose one’s attitude in any given circumstance.” That’s just really powerful. For you, the making of meaning — is that the same as hearing it and saying…

Natalie
Oh, I think I see a connection, absolutely. Couldn’t one just listen to a nice thing being said of them, and then dismiss it? I think that is a potential. I have the power to take the words that my student has shared with me and make meaning of them, and then go and do better and more.

Rebecca
And let it affect you in this really beautiful, powerful way, as opposed to dismissing it. I probably have more of these notes in my life than I realize, but how many of them have I maybe dismissed. Sometimes Simon will say really beautiful things to me, and I’ll just be like, “Not in the mood to hear that,” or, “I don’t believe that about myself right now.” So I can’t. There is an openness required here.

Natalie
I think so, for sure.

Rebecca
Another author that came to mind for me — I just wanted to read one more quote — she did die in the Holocaust, but her name is Etty Hillesum. Do you remember when I was working on a play about her, like ten years ago?

Natalie
Yeah!

Rebecca
I found this really interesting. She’s expressing gratitude for her inner interior life, which is really interesting. This is her writing, she’s in a concentration camp. “When you have an interior life, it certainly doesn’t matter what side of the prison fence you’re on… I’ve already died a thousand times in a thousand concentration camps. I know everything. There is no new information to trouble me. One way or another, I already know everything. And yet, I find this life beautiful and rich in meaning. At every moment.” I don’t know, I just wanted to share those. These amazing people finding gratitude and meaning in extraordinary circumstances. So I guess I’m doing what Huberman says, I’m finding these examples, and I’m letting those examples shape me.

Natalie
Yes, but I think actually he would say that it is about finding one of them — like one key one — and then returning to it. That’s where the notion of practice, I think, comes in. I think the doing of the work of searching out stories, that’s all very healthy and good, but if one is trying to actually develop a gratitude practice that they can then take forward into their day — and have started their day in a healthier way than they would have if they hadn’t done this — he’s basically saying it can be a short story. It doesn’t even have to be a novel. It could simply be a profound moment that somebody shared. But as the listener (or I’ve heard one academic refer to a listener as a ‘story taker,’ I really like that line), one can jot down notes or key ideas of the story. If you are going to use Hillesum’s idea, you would jot down a few key lines from the piece that you then return to. Then you don’t even have to actually think through the whole story, you just think of those key lines that either were a quotation that she shared, or what it made you feel. Why did you feel grateful at that point?

Rebecca
I go to my thoughts on Etty Hillesum, I have those quick jot notes, and those trigger in me that certain part of my brain because I keep returning to those specific words or jot notes.

Natalie
Totally, because now the brain is so connected empathetically with that repeated story that even just thinking about the story prompts the brain into gratitude mode. It’s like you’re pressing a button that changes the shape of the brain right from the get go, which I think is pretty cool and empowering because it’s basically giving us the chance to do the work on our brain. It’s not like we have to be waiting for somebody else’s note to come in and tell us that we’re wonderful. We really can search out that one special story, two special stories, whatever it is, and then make the concerted effort to think about that story, which then does the work. Can we really make February a month for this sort of interior work? She talked about that interior life, this interior work to be done on so many levels, that it actually is not just going to mean something in February, but will then mean something in March and then April, and so on, because we’re practicing gratitude more effectively.

Rebecca
To me, that goes back to that Dillard quote. We’re talking about forming a habit. How I use my one hour will shape my life. So what would you do with Frankie, how would you do this with him?

Natalie
Yeah, I have to think about this. I do that thing at the end of the school day when I come home, “What was good about your day?” But I don’t think that that is what Huberman would say is a gratitude practice. I do think that probably I’m going to have to find a version of one of these stories, or I might go so far as to actually write him a little letter that tells him I’m grateful for him, of him, about him — whatever phrasing would work there. I might do that, I might write him a little note that says, “This is why I’m grateful for you,” so that he has a place to start in terms of a gratitude story to look at.

Rebecca
Right, his own little narrative that he can pin up in his room.

Natalie
Well, because that’s where we start it, right?

Rebecca
Yeah, I really like that. Because I was wondering, what would I do for Violet and Elsie? Duh — write them notes.

Natalie
Yeah, because we have that power. We have the power to give that story, and then maybe at some point, I would tell him about this practice that I’m trying and then he might then think of another story that he’s thought of.

Rebecca
Ok, going to do that. I’m going to turn off this microphone and I’m going to write my girls some notes.

Natalie
It’s like the ultimate reframe.

Rebecca
I will do it maybe not in a second, I will do it this day. Will you too, Nat?

Natalie
Yeah, absolutely.

Rebecca
Ok. Thanks for that. Thanks for summarizing all that.

Natalie
Well, thanks for reading my kid’s letter. I didn’t know that I needed that today, but obviously I did.

Rebecca
I really like her line about “comes in large waves.” She’s very poetic. Oh my gosh, this girl, to take the time to do that — it’s really inspiring. Just even taking the time to tell people that you love them, and that you appreciate. I don’t think probably any of us do that enough. When we see that, it’s just so meaningful.

Natalie
Yeah, definitely. I need to write that note to Frankie, and then I need to now go write a note to mom. Tamara, for opening my door. I’ve got so many notes to write, oh my goodness.

Rebecca
Actually, you know what — I do have one friend in my life, I was just talking with her, and if she’s listening to the podcast, she’ll send me a little quick note. I’ve asked her about that, and she says she does do that with her friends. She’ll reach out as soon as she’s triggered to remember them. That’s actually really beautiful that she would do that. Not many people are taking the time to just do that. So shout out to my friend Mallory (I’ll just say it), because it’s a beautiful quality.

Natalie
Yeah, it really is, absolutely. I think I can hear your cat.

Rebecca
Oh my gosh Nat, I think she’s using your cat’s litter box. Oh no.

Natalie
Oh, Coco!

Rebecca
Coco taking over.

Natalie
Marsh is not going to feel gratitude for that experience. But anyways, we will clean out that work later.

Rebecca
Ok, I love you Nat. Go do your thing.

Natalie
I love you too. See you soon. Bye.

Rebecca
Ok, bye.