Rebecca
Hey Nat.

Nat
Hey Bec.

Rebecca
You yawned!

Nat
I know! I try not to.

Rebecca
I thought you yawned and then tried to hide your yawn.

Nat
You know what, I heard, who was it? Roz and Mocha this morning, that I’m listening to on my way into work, and Roz yawned. Mocha was so – he was like, really frustrated. He was like, “How did you just yawn on the air with me?” And Roz was like, “In however many years, I’ve never yawned. I always squelch my yawn. I’m just really tired.” And you know what Rebecca, today it’s 7:30pm and I am fatigued. Life has hit me – it is only Tuesday!

Rebecca
Yes. I know, I just wrote that actually in my newsletter. I was like, “Have a great weekend everyone!” Then I’m like, “Wait – it’s only Tuesday.”

Nat
That’s great.

Rebecca
Ok, so this is our second holiday episode.

Nat
Yes. I like this.

Rebecca
And I decided to Google the etymology of the word holiday. Today we are reframing the notion of holiday, aren’t we?

Nat
Yes, that was the plan – like the nugget, the seed of a plan. We’re seeing what emerges here.

Rebecca
Are you ready? It’s not that easy to read etymologies.

Nat
Etymological language?

Rebecca
Is etymologies not a thing?

Nat
I don’t know, I’d have to go look that one up.

Rebecca
Ok, so 1500s – earlier, haliday, circa 1200.

Nat
This is the origin of the word “holiday”?

Rebecca
Yup. From old English haligdaeg –

Nat
Meaning?

Rebecca
Holy day, consecrated day, religious anniversary, sabbath. Which comes from halig, which is holy, plus daeg, which is day.

Nat
Ok, then flash forward to the 14th century.

Rebecca
It shifted to meaning both religious festival and day of exemption from labor and recreation. So it shifted from holy day, consecrated day, to day of exemption from labor and recreation.

Nat
Which I find quite interesting – that it’s not just a day of exemption from labor, but from labor and recreation.

Rebecca
Yeah. I guess there’s some religiousness in the word, but I find it interesting, this Sabbath idea. I was going to say, we we know the word Sabbath from our Christian background. Do non-religious people connect with the word Sabbath? Can you speak for all non-religious people?

Nat
The one non-religious human in my life is my husband. And I guess he would use the word in relation to his own sort of desire for time and space for meditation.

Rebecca
We know the etymology of the word Sabbath now. We can just do etymologies.

Nat
Oh, I’m into that. Don’t make me geek out on that, because I’d be totally into that. So ok, we’ll save that one for the next time. But I do believe that lots of people can connect with that term, for sure. I think that language is definitely imbued with lots of historical meaning, and often that meaning is connected back to religious institutions, right. So it just makes a lot of sense that it’s there. I mean, especially when we’re going back to the early 1500s. I mean, that’s not that far back, actually.

Rebecca
Actually, on my meditation app, they had this one talk with this guy who was talking about time, and he brought up Sabbath. Just how that would be so useful for all of us if we reclaimed a Sabbath. The complete exemption from labor and recreation – like, there was no doing whatsoever. Ok, but related to holiday – so I was thinking, how I don’t think of the Christmas holiday, this season – I don’t associate it with rest. Certainly Christmas Day, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, I don’t associate that with much Sabbath or rest. Maybe in 20 years. Ever since I was married, and we have had two families to juggle, it just feels…

Nat
Busy.

Rebecca
Yeah, going from place to place. I kind of have to gear up for this moment, for the season, and particularly those days. So I was wondering if I need to do an overhaul of this haligdaeg, or change my mindset about it. I don’t know. Or go into observer mode about at all, like I kind of go into this bird’s eye view experience?

Nat
I think that’s kind of cool.

Rebecca
Although I don’t know if it’s actually possible for me to do a bird’s eye where I just step back and just go on with the flow.

Nat
You do. You certainly do it in certain moments, anyways, with certain folks that you connect with at different times.

Rebecca
You see me do it?

Nat
Yeah! I’ve seen you do it at church, I’ve seen you do it at parties – like pre-COVID parties where I just sort of see you like, zone in on whoever was talking to you. And then you’re just in there. You are laser focused.

Rebecca
Really? But I see that as the opposite – then we’re just talking about different things. When I see bird’s eye, just going into observer mode, I see that as me being super detached. Usually when I’m having those big conversations, I’m going super invested. So we might be talking about different things.

Nat
Oh, yeah. I don’t think of detached as necessarily the way that I would want you to be, then you just might as well be drunk. If we’re just gonna say, let’s get you drunk for Christmas Eve, that’s fine too – because you can walk home from your place to mine or whatever.

Rebecca
So that would be one option, just drink your way through and see –

Nat
Yeah, which sounds problematic, so let’s not go there. For lots of reasons.

Rebecca
Ok, so what were you thinking I was meaning? When you say “observer mode,” you were thinking…?

Nat
Being able to just be in the moment with whoever it is you’re with at that time. When I’m in a space like that, and I see lots of things happening around me, I’m not as good as you at being able to laser focus on what’s right in front of me. I am taking in all the things that are happening around me, because I’m a teacher. And that’s how a teacher functions in a healthy classroom. She knows what’s happening on all sides of the room at all times, so that things don’t blow up. As facetious as that sounds, it’s how you save kids from hurting each other. It’s how you can kind of –

Rebecca
Help 30 kids?

Nat
Yeah, build the moment that kind of just sort of happened out of the corner of your eye, or the far reaches of your ear – but then you were able to join in with that little conversation that turned into something good. But the challenges of that kind of attention to detail around you is that then I’m not as able to be. So maybe it’s less of a bird’s eye, if I’m going to change my animal here. I’d like to be less of a squirrel, and I’d like to be more of a…

Rebecca
Eagle?

Nat
Eagle. Yes.

Rebecca
Was that the animal?

Nat
I like that, I don’t know what I was going to say, but definitely something that was more focused.

Rebecca
Although I associate eagles back with being the bird’s eye. Because they are in fact a bird, but –

Nat
But they do see really clearly. They’ve got great vision, isn’t that the thing?

Rebecca
Oh, they do, yes. I know they do, I researched that for a book, so I know they do. They see 20 times or something what we see.

Nat
Ok, well there we go.

Rebecca
Ok, so you need to try my observer laser focus.

Nat
Becca I’ve got big dreams for this holiday season in terms of all the ways I’m gonna shift and grow. So it’ll happen.

Rebecca
Oh really? Well tell me what you’re thinking.

Nat
I don’t want to cut you off, if you had more that you want to think about.

Rebecca
I also wanted to just go back to the idea that you were saying, let’s turn the word holiday on its head. And then we started talking, when we were just brainstorming this session. You had mentioned the whole acne positive movement that’s happening. Because we’re talking about turning something completely on its head, because – for all you listeners out there, here’s a sad part of our history. We really struggled with acne, both of us really did, right?

Nat
Yeah

Rebecca
It was a huge part of our teen experience. I think I did even worse than you. I like to just claim that it was worse.

Nat
Whatever you need to do, Bec. It was medication and stuff, I mean it was hard. It wasn’t just like dab a little zit cream on something, it was full on hormone changing meds.

Rebecca
No, it’s obviously not the same. Some people really don’t struggle with this, so it’s not a universal struggle. That’s something I’ve definitely observed. I remember fully being in grade 11 and having to turn my head to see the blackboard, and this girl, I could feel her staring at my forehead which was covered in zits. It’s such a clear memory I have. But now, you have noticed on TikTok…

Nat
Well, mostly Instagram, yeah. I don’t really do TikTok.

Rebecca
I try to get you to do TikTok. Elsie is still thinking about a TikTok for us to do. We have this discussion every day. I say, “Elsie, will you help me make a TikTok?”

Nat
And then she’s like, “I have to think about it!”

Rebecca
Yes, then she says, “I have to go think about it, and I have to research it. But I have to research it on your phone.” So we basically have this conversation daily. And nothing happens. She doesn’t research it, we don’t do a TikTok. I feel a bit bad that I don’t do enough TikToks, I don’t know what to do.

Nat
I really respect that you guys continue to engage with that conversation.

Rebecca
And go nowhere with it? Our persistence in having that conversation. And then we wrote it on the fridge because we have a list of chores, and I added “Helping mommy with TikTok” to her chores. Now Violet reminds us of this chore, too. So Violet’s like, “Have you guys done your TikTok?” Because she wants Elsie to do her chores, you’re supposed to do your chores if you want your allowance. So it stresses me out. But what are we saying? Oh yeah, this acne positive – that’s definitely amazing.

Nat
It’s amazing.

Rebecca
That kids can essentially reframe acne.

Nat
But I am going that my students did tell me this week – because we did a big round table in my classroom all about body positivity. And the question that they decided to present to the group was, “Is body positivity truly positive?” Because the feeling was, in theory, it’s all very true and cool. But you go to the comments section and it doesn’t feel like that. That people don’t stay that way.

Rebecca
So it starts that way, but then it –

Nat
It quickly veers to the negative and to the into the painful. I don’t know, humankind does not show itself very beautifully in the online realm. So the teenagers are seeing that, right. They see things pretty clearly, they’re eagles, with all of their laser vision. So just to say, I don’t think we can say that acne positivity thing is all perfect. But I think in theory, it’s a really great notion. So to reframe in that way, is certainly a goal.

Rebecca
Yeah. So reframing is happening, even though it might not be perfect reframing.

Nat
Yeah. And you know what, that’s actually a really good starting point.

Rebecca
We try. We take steps. I was saying that to you earlier, right. Even as you think about career shifts down the line, we can try things for a while, we can experiment and try things. I mean, it’s nice that kids are trying to jump on this reframing. You had suggested we turn the word “holiday” on its head, I just wanted you to speak to that. Do you remember what you were thinking? And is that to do with what you want out of the holiday? Or what were you thinking when you suggested that to me?

Nat
It kind of comes from a bunch of different places. In 19 years with the TDSB, so I’ve worked for this board for a long time, and I’ve worked in lots of different schools with lots of different demographics making up the student population. And I would say that what maybe would have happened around the winter holiday time 20 years ago, is very different for me and my experience as a teacher, just because of where I’ve landed in my teaching, and also just my own sort of awareness of the world. My Eurocentric, very Christian perspective on this season as Christmas is not how I live my day, in a school where – you know, the predominant religion in my space is Islam. My Muslim kids are not celebrating Christmas as much – like, I mean, they’ll sort of toy with the idea in the space, sometimes for my benefit, sometimes for each other. But really, it’s just a very, very different kind of space in terms of what the holiday experience is. Wen I was when I was working at Humber and I was working with those students who were basically pushed out of the system for a long time, the holidays were some of the worst times for them. And I would lose them closer to the holiday season because it was almost like, life just got more difficult. Trudging through the snow was that one last thing that broke the camel’s back per se, right? And who wants to come and be around a celebratory atmosphere when everything feels so hard, and lonely, and and all of those things? So I don’t know, reframing holiday for me is a real task that I’m taking on here. Ok, how do I enjoy aspects of this season that are important to me, and important to the way that I get to engage with you, my family, with Frankie, and all the excitement that he feels, but how also do I keep a real open heart and mind to those around me who are not just sad because the Hallmark movie didn’t play out – like that kind of BS – but are actually just trying to make it in the day to day, because of lots of different struggles. And the holiday is like this pinprick reminder of hurt. And I don’t want to add to that for anyone. So I’ve just been trying to really think about that.

Rebecca
Do you hear that? Are students irritated at it?

Nat
You know, it was interesting. Like today, I sat down next to a young man who’s 19. He’s here right now living with his dad and stepmom, his mom’s back home in Jamaica. And he had made this decision that he was going to come here and try things out with his dad for access to the Canadian education system. And today he was just low. And I was like, “Ok, listen man, like, let’s just try and see if we can find a way to silo what it is that we need to get done over the next little bit here. Not so that we’re focusing solely on school. School is not the thing that is going to save you from everything else that’s so frustrating right now. But perhaps it can be a bit of an escape, right? Like if you do this task, and this task, then at least those things are off your plate for all of this enormous plate that you’re trying to balance in the air on a stick.” You know what I mean? Like that’s how it feels I think for him right now, as he looks ahead to all the changes that are coming in the next three weeks for him. Moving out, all these big things. How do you pay rent, if you’re all of a sudden not living at home, how do get a job to pay your rent, and still do school? The very adult sort of existence that he wasn’t – I don’t think, in his mind – thinking he was going to have to live in six weeks. So anyways, the idea of holiday does not bode so well for him. And so I’m just thinking about that and going ok, let’s reframe on the page here. With him, we were talking about how to sort of get some of this work done. And I thought about it for myself. Maybe reframing holiday, even for me, means getting some aspects of work done. Silo the bits of work that need to get finished, but to leave some space for connection with those who –

Rebecca
And when you say work that gets done, are you meaning in your work space?

Nat
Sure, but I’m even thinking about in the holiday time.

Rebecca
Like cooking.

Nat
Yeah. So can I can I do the things that are labor-based, around this holiday season, but truly leave my mind and heart open for those who need it? And I think in there includes me. So how do I reframe this time even to carve out some space for Natalie to work through.

Rebecca
Because you know what, when I do have a really intense conversation with someone, it’s really enjoyable to dive in really deep with someone and you just put like the blinders. I think that could be fun for you. Where you’re really just, “Talk to me.” And you just go, “I’m asking you lots of questions.” I mean, you do do that. But you do feel like you could do that more this holiday season?

Nat
Yeah. I was even gonna say to you earlier, can you be reframing even just for yourself? Because you initially said that this season can feel kind of frantic and busy. I was gonna say to you, can you reframe that feeling of being frantic to just actually calling it a feeling of excitement? Could you turn the feeling around, so that you see it a different way right from the get-go? Because if it’s excitement, doesn’t that end up being something you want to engage in, as opposed to a feeling of frantic (sighs) where you want to escape it, right?

Rebecca
That’s good, Nat! Just wait, like, just pause? I have to let that sink in, because that could be like revolutionary in my life. I’m frantic a lot, right? It’s actually something I’ve noticed – I’m like, “Wow, there’s that feeling in my stomach again, I’m really anxious and frantic.” So turning that into excitement –

Nat
Could be a win, right?

Rebecca
Could be huge. So I’m going to try and experiment with that.

Nat
I came up with that last night, as I was working through this Google Doc.

Rebecca
That’s really good reframing.

Nat
Well maybe, right? And so like, what’s the word I need to reframe for me? I mean, I guess what I have to think about. We’ll go there, we’ll see how it emerges from you over time. I’m a good host, according to mom and dad, because I’m good at recognizing who in my space has various needs to be filled. So I don’t want to let go of that.

Rebecca
No, you don’t want to let go of it.

Nat
Because I like to care for people.

Rebecca
But I think it would be neat to see you sit on the couch. Although then he would say, “Oh, but my leg, I need to get up and walk around.” I do think it would be exciting to see someone have to get their own thing because you’re sitting on the couch. You’re like, “Oh, could you just grab that for yourself?” I’d love to see you say that. “Could you grab that for yourself?” If we’re in a room together, you, me and Violet, who will Violet go to get her shit? She will go to you. Have you not even noticed that? “Auntie Natalie, I need some water?” Because she knows you will do it. So that is the thing. If I was coaching you, I would say, “Can you get yourself that thing?”

Nat
That really beautiful thing over there, that I did make for you, but can you get your own extra piece of that?

Rebecca
Your first piece? You should make your soup. But I’m saying it would be so neat for me to watch you…

Nat
Let other people take care of themselves.

Rebecca
And take care of you and just be like, I’m done. I’m sitting on this couch for the night. And then when I need to stretch my legs, I’m stretching it over here, close to my seat. And I’m doing ten jumping jacks and then I’m sitting right back down. And then please bring me

Nat
All the things. Yeah. Ok, I hear that. I’m going to see if I can…

Rebecca
If I have to reframe my franticness, which is something I genuinely feel, that is not an easy thing. So if you say, “Get excited!” that’s gonna be hard for me. So you try the hard thing too, Nat.

Nat
Ok, I’ll try the hard thing.

Rebecca
So I’gonna be watching you with my eagle eyes on Christmas Eve and seeing how you do.

Nat
That’s stressful, but I will try. All right, I’m going to go forward from there and say that, why do I feel stuck in that? I feel stuck because that makes me feel a little bit scared. Like, what if I failed? I think that’s something I need to reframe as well. In this holiday in this? What was it again, haligdaeg? I need to not view my attempts to make space and sort of shift to allow care to seep in for me, and still for me to care for others, whatever. But I need to not view any of those things as the potential for a mess up or for failure.

Rebecca
I mean that’s a challenge for all of us. I think it’s why people probably avoid meditation, because they worry that they will suck at it.

Nat
Yeah, so right off the bat you kind of go into this headspace of –

Rebecca
I know it’s going to be hard.

Nat
Yeah. Failure.

Rebecca
Both of us, let’s tread lightly to see what we can shift. You had mentioned this fig leaf plant also, that was inspiring you?

Nat
Yeah! I think that my fiddle leaf plant – is that what it’s called, fiddle leaf? Anyways, it’s the one with the big leaves that is kind of difficult to grow, right. And I’m decided that I’m going to use that plant as my living metaphor for the next little while here, and the reason for the holiday – and even I’m going to try for forward beyond that – because I really was very struck. As I was working through this doc last night, I was looking at the plant because the plant is now –

Rebecca
We use Google Docs, everyone.

Nat
Yeah, we’re really into Google Docs. I was looking at this plant, and it’s so happy in this one very slim window in our bedroom. And this plant, two years ago when we moved to this house – it had been a very happy plant, a new fresh plant when we had lived in the condo, where we had so much light – it was so pretty there in that way. And when we moved, I thought I was moving it to a really good window. And in that window, for the first two years of its life in this house, it basically just dropped all the leaves.

Rebecca
Rowhouses are really hard for plants.

Nat
Oh my gosh, yeah. And so anyways, that plant, instead of just tossing it, we just said, “Ok.” The gardener Clifford was like, “Let’s just give it a go upstairs. See what happens with that light.” And since finding that space, it’s become so happy. And so many leaves have come back out. It’s just been the happiest thing in the world. And I’m really looking at that and going, “This very difficult to tend… super finicky… it only wants water in certain ways at certain times and light, you know, from one angle,” and all this kind of nonsense. But truly, it’s like a plant that has survived.

Rebecca
And it looks like that, which is really interesting. Because the bottom leaves –

Nat
Still have the pain.

Rebecca
So it’s kind of like: bad leaves… stem… good leaves! All on this one plant, it just feels like this symbol of persistence, and I’ve been through some shit.

Nat
It's me. Yeah, I’ve been through some through some stuff. Oh, my goodness, right? And so I don’t know, I’m looking at this plant and thinking, “Ok, so maybe finding that plant a new place to sit could be part of this metaphor.” So you’re joking and teasing me, but truly saying to me, maybe take some time to sit at a certain spot on the couch and not get up and take care of people. Right? That’s something right there. But also, even taking on a new spot to do some of what I do when I’m cooking. Instead of going into the caregiving mode that I can do – which is good for others, but I can kind of lose myself in –what would it look like to set up the table in the kitchen so that instead of caring and isolating myself, I still get to care, I still get to give, but I’m looking at the party and being a part of the party and just staring at it from a different angle. Or even, like at Christmas dinner, sitting at a different spot at the table. So I just see something new. What would it mean to be new in this haligdaeg season. And I mean, the kids get to be new all the time, because they’re constantly getting new things. That’s part of the fun of Christmas when you’re little. Clifford said to me the other day, “Should we put something under the tree for you? Like you kind of don’t have anything here.” I’m like, “We just bought me a car.” But that wasn’t the gift I was anticipating. And so I’m really then feeling like every time I get into the car to drive to work, I’m getting into my Christmas gift. In some ways, that’s kind of fun. It’s a fun new iteration on gift that I’m reframing for myself. But anyways, I don’t know Bec, I’m looking at that fiddle leaf and going: It’s not a Christmas tree. It’s not this plant that’s just gonna die. It’s a plant that has survived and will seemingly continue to live on because it was moved.

Rebecca
And it’s building a new life.

Nat
Yeah, in a new spot. I think I’m surrounded these days by a lot of really sad, kind of dead inside people in the education system. Lots of people are really wounded and hurt and tired. And probably lots of other folks can say that they’re seeing it in their own industries. But just from an education perspective, there’s lots of not hope around us. And so to try and be hope for others, which is part of my job, somehow I need to be watered. So this season, like that kind of finicky plant, I need to find the ways to be watered, so that I can have hope for myself and offer some to those who need it from me. So that’s a metaphor for me. I think a living metaphor that I’m gonna…

Rebecca
Because you can’t offer hope if you’re dead inside.

Nat
No. And like, what does it mean to water me slowly, right? I mean, one of these plants doesn’t really like tons of water. It’s like a slow drip. Right?

Rebecca
Have you put coconut oil on its leaves?

Nat
I remember that the plant guy told you that and I’m tempted, at some point.

Rebecca
It’s pretty fun.

Nat
Yeah, it would look so shiny and pretty.

Rebecca
Take like an hour to do it. I recommend paper towel. You might have to heat the oil up.

Nat
But maybe new leaves will surprise me in this season. Maybe that living metaphor can be not just something I say and think about, but actually get to witness, which would be pretty amazing. In myself, in those around me. That would feel very haligdaeg to me.

Rebecca
New leaves.

Nat
Yeah, new leaves.

Rebecca
I find this interesting that we have one friend, she’s making a sort of radical choice for her haligdaeg season. She’s house-sitting a dog.

Nat
Yeah, she was like, I want to be with dogs. I want to be with a dog. I want time with this creature.

Rebecca
I’m bracketing this time, this is what I need for myself.

Nat
She sought it out.

Rebecca
Yeah, she made it happen for herself.

Nat
That’s amazing.

Rebecca
So I I feel like that's an interesting model, too.

Nat
To search something out and make it happen for yourself.

Rebecca
I’m just gonna leave my family, I’m gonna go dog-sit.

Nat
Well, I mean that’s the thing, everybody can make their own way to do it.

Rebecca
I know but actually I think it would be pretty cool. There’s probably a movie in that. Mother who’s like, “I’m out…”

Nat
“I’m going to go do this other thing.”

Rebecca
But I really appreciate the intentionality of all that. Maybe to close, because we were gonna do this short, is that I listened to this one parenting blog – ok, I read it, she probably has a podcast as well – but her name is Emily Oster, and she has something, it’s called ParentData. So it’s very data driven, I feel sciencey when I read it. What she encourages in her parenting approach is that any choice is fine, as long as it’s intentional and it was made thoughtfully, intentionally. So I think with our dog-sitting, that’s very intentional. So it might work, it might not work, but it was intentional. So whatever we do over haligdaeg – I can’t stop saying haligdaeg now – intentional sitting and intentional, whatever yours is, right. You’re watering.

Nat
Watering in new locations.

Rebecca
Yours feels abstract. So just concretize it for me, just so I can remind you, so I can be watching for it.

Nat
No, Rebecca, I love you so much, but I’m not going to concretize this because my goal-driven, day to day everything is rigidly organized around those damn bells. I’m gonna let this be loose – fluid, like the fluid that’s gonna run through that plant.

Rebecca
You could be like, Bec, I’m doing it. Or I’m not doing it.

Nat
You might not know it.

Rebecca
Who knows what’s happening?

Nat
And I did not fail myself.

Rebecca
And me – it’s true, because you won’t know if I’m frantic or excited.

Nat
No. I could say to you, to really irritate you, “Take a breath.” That would be annoying, but perhaps a useful prompt.

Rebecca
The double inhale – I’ve learned about double (breath) and then (breath) one more time.

Nat
Oh my gosh, Clifford does that all the time.

Rebecca
Apparently that’s the masterful way if you really want to calm down, is you inhale and then inhale again. Ok, go tell Clifford about that.

Nat
He’s already doing it! Oh my gosh.

Rebecca
So he knows everything. So the point is, this is about our internal compass anyway, I’m not gonna…

Nat
You’re not watching me, I’m not managing you.

Rebecca
Nobody’s watching anybod, and if all I do is drink…

Nat
I might pass you the bottle then, I guess that’s what it would come down to.

Rebecca
That’s all we’re doing. We’re just supporting.

Nat
It’s all support.

Rebecca
Happy haligdaeg.

Nat
I love you.

Rebecca
Now you say it to me.

Nat
Happy haligdaeg, Rebecca.

Rebecca
Ok, bye.