Bec jumps to a heavy thought that flits into her mind lately: “I’m ugly. I’m stupid.” Nat calls it a “thought wasp,” taken from Jeanette Winterson’s reframing of the Atlas myth. They discuss the need to protect themselves from the weight of the world.

Nat admits to her own thought wasps, which have more to do with imposter syndrome: “No one wants me” and “Is this everything?”

They discuss countering strategies: persisting in prayer (as Miriam Toews’ grandmother character offers up in her new book Fight Night), conversation and reframing for one another, as well as gratitude and joy!