Natalie
Yeah, I’d say so. Teacher to podcaster’s been a pretty big transition.

Rebecca
But other people making big transitions have also been reaching out to us through Reframeables. So we decided it would be fun to feature their stories from time to time. Regular people like us — like our guest today, is a woman who went from being a teacher to working at Costco and built a popular TikTok account of close to 40,000 followers on sharing that story. She says this transition was the right choice for her and has, funnily, meant a better quality of life.

Natalie
But first, if you’ve been following Ann’s dilemma from episode 57 (what we called the Bourdain Dilemma), you’ll remember that she was agonizing about asking for a gift back — a signed cookbook from famed chef Anthony Bourdain. It was surprisingly controversial. Some people were adamant that she could not ask for it back, but I offered what some listeners felt was a surprising perspective about how this ask could in fact be done well. Here’s an update from Ann.

What’s happened, Ann? Give us the update.

Ann
Ok, so we’re taking this in baby steps, but I definitely felt as though the Reframable conversation really reframed my thinking around this. I was actually able to talk to my dad and it was a very casual, “Hey, I heard so-and-so is packing up and moving their stuff. Could you check with him if he still has the Anthony Bourdain book? I’d love to get it back.” And he went, “Oh,” my dad, he goes, “Oh, ok. Yeah. Ok. Send me a text about that.” I haven’t sent the text yet, and that was two weeks ago, but I am going to because my goal is to get the book back for my stepfather for his 70th birthday in September. So I feel like a baby step has been made, and the most… I think the biggest step, to be honest, was getting it out there. And so now I just have to send that text and follow through and follow up. But I have to say this is huge — I have a feeling it’s coming back my way, and even if it’s not coming back my way, I’ve put it out there and it’s kind of out in the universe and off my shoulders, and out of my brain and in the universe, and then the universe is going to decide what’s going to happen with that one.

Natalie
Ok, Bec. I would say that Ann is doing exactly what we talk about on here — about reframing through the Reframeables perspective. She’s not having just one conversation and then expecting bam, like a solution. She’s working through something.

Rebecca
And it is very idiosyncratic to her specific situation, isn’t it?

Natalie
Yeah, and she’s iterating and sharing. So I’m all here for it.

Rebecca
And now our interview with Maggie Perkins about transitioning from teacher to Costco worker. Maggie is a former teacher in the midst of completing her PhD in education and is a teacher advocate. She is a mom of two, and on the day this episode airs, she’ll be working at a brand new Costco that has just opened its doors in her town — and she’s pumped.

Natalie
Thanks, Maggie, for being with us.

Maggie
I’m glad to be here.

Natalie
So tell us, what are you transitioning out of, or what did you recently transition out of?

Maggie
This is my first year since 2014 that I’m not a classroom educator, and I now work for Costco.

Natalie
That is a really big shift.

Maggie
It is.

Natalie
As a teacher who has just left a big career in teaching, that’s a big shift away from the classroom. What does it feel like?

Maggie
So in a way, it feels like I’m just doing something similar, but then some days it feels like I’m doing something completely new. But I haven’t felt, like, jolted by this transition. I think of it sort of like I’m using all my soft skills that I did as a teacher, but just in a new environment. I don’t feel like I’ve had to learn new challenging skills — like, I’ve learned new procedures, certainly, because I didn’t have a cash register when I was a teacher, but I haven’t had to learn anything that was like, a whole new skill set. And I just feel that I transitioned really… not seamlessly, but just like, it feels right for me. And I’ve just been very pleasantly surprised by how good this transition has been.

Rebecca
So it was the right decision for you?

Maggie
Oh my gosh, yes. I wish I had left teaching a lot sooner. And I know that as teachers and former teachers, there’s things we’re afraid to say because of how it might sound or be, but, like, I should have left teaching a really long time ago. And if I’m honest with myself, I don’t even know if I should have been a teacher in the first place — like, the red flags that I look back on and see in my first two, three years of teaching, they were there when I was student teaching. Like, I recently reread some diary entries from when I was in college, student teaching. And the stuff that I was writing about, just, like, my fatigue or, like, the things that I was being pushed to do that were not appropriate, those were huge systemic problems. And I just thought that, “Oh, it’ll get better,” and I was lying to myself. I knew in my gut that this was how it was going to be. But then that teacher martyr idea of, like, this is how you measure how good of a teacher you are — I was trying to push for that, and I just pushed myself into it and changed my whole identity, and I just kept forcing myself through.

Rebecca
Did you go through a phase where you were, “I want to change the system?” Like, “The system is messed up, how can I…?” I mean, you seem like a proactive person. You probably went down that road too — what needs to change in the system and how can I make this better for myself, so you tried that too?

Maggie
Yeah, that’s the whole reason I’m a PhD student. I mean, I was teaching for a number of years, and at a point, I decided that the reason why teachers were struggling was because maybe they didn’t have a great teacher education program. And I knew that I had come from a really, really well-prepared teacher education program, but that in my state, in my region, there was other ones that were just basically teacher factories. And so my goal was to study teacher education and then sort of work my way up through a different program, one that I may have viewed as needing fixing and become influential in pedagogy and, you know, the way we teach future teachers. So that’s what I started my PhD doing, and then as I was in that, I began learning that it’s not just that the teachers were underprepared — it’s that this is systemic. The most prepared teacher in the world can’t survive in an environment like this — not in a healthy way. So I did put on that little cape of, “I can fix this,” and then realized that it’s just deeply systemic.

Natalie
Yeah, it really is. Now, just by way of context, you already mentioned that you’re in the States, but I think geography means something. So where are you at?

Maggie
I’m in Georgia. So I spent the most of my teaching career in the state of Georgia, which is a state without unions. It’s a right-to-work state. You can and will be hired or fired without reasonable cause. And I’ve also taught in a union state, but it was Florida — which is Florida. And so, yeah, I’ve never been in, like, one of those states like Washington or Massachusetts or Connecticut, where there’s just, you know, they treat teachers really well. I’ve always had to, like, fight for my life as a teacher.

Natalie
Which is a very different circumstance than what I just left. I mean, 20 years was a wonderful career for me in public education in Toronto. And our union is strong, and our voices are very united. And sure, there are lots and lots of systemic issues within the system writ large, but the actual union power does mean so much. So what you’re speaking out of is so dramatically different, and yet I find it so fascinating that we both still, in the end, left. When we found each other on TikTok, there’s just something really interesting in that, because TikTok as a space, it took me a long time to come to it because I really didn’t feel like it was a space where I, as a woman in my 40s, could find people that I would connect with. And you were actually one of the first faces that I saw on there and went, “Oh, this is interesting,” but I didn’t know at that time about your doctoral work. So I didn’t see any of the, like, a little mini-connections that you and I had. But there was something about that space. So why TikTok? Like, what is happening in that space that sort of brought you in there and why people like me? Why are we finding you?

Maggie
Yeah, I think TikTok is so fascinating. I love my For You page — like, it can be anything from a Maine Coon cat to, like, a cooking thing, to somebody talking about, like, social justice, and it’s just wonderful. I love that it’s an algorithm, so when people complain about, like, “Oh, it’s just girls dancing in bikinis,” I’m like, “That’s the formula for you. That’s what it thinks you want, because you’ve trained it that way.” So I think it’s really diverse as a place of education. And, like, initially when it started, yeah, it was mostly silly stuff, but it’s really evolved a lot, and I like TikTok for reasons similar to why a lot of employers like remote work as a viable future. Because if you’re seeking a remote employee, you can search the whole nation or even, like, a whole continent or a whole time zone for an employee and find the best match for you. And I find that TikTok similarly amplifies my experience and allows people to connect with me, and me to connect with other people that I never would have met otherwise because of my geographic region.

Like, if I was just having these experiences and these feelings at my school, I wouldn’t really meet other people — maybe a couple of other people who feel the same way. But because of TikTok, I’ve made so many connections, like you and just other creators who I’m like, “We are not alone.” You know? It’s both comforting and challenging to see how big these problems are, but then also being, like, #qualitativeresearch is a thing, and I can get on that hashtag and see other people making jokes about being a drowning PhD student, or meaningful little snippets. There’s just so many ways to connect that are humorous and intellectual and nuanced, and it just expands my worldview, I think. And that’s why I like TikTok.

Rebecca
Is the identity you’re investigating on TikTok more the PhD student? Or it’s more having transitioned out of education, or it’s both? I kind of have seen both?

Maggie
Yeah, I’m more so talking about what hurts the most, I guess, or what rises up the most frequently. And so in the past, I did talk a good bit about PhD stuff because I was a full-time PhD student, and now I’m not a full-time, I’m part-time. I think it was Stephen King who said, “Write what you know,” or somebody else who said, “Write what you know.” And I think about that a lot, and I just talk about what I know. So my most immediate experience right now is being a Costco employee. But I view that through a lens of: I’m a transition teacher, I’m a qualitative researcher, I’m an autistic woman — and these things that are my lens into the world. I’m a wife, I’m a mother. So I talk about what I immediately experience, but through the lenses of the multi-layered person that I am.

Rebecca
And why Ms. Frizzle? Or the Millennial Ms. Frizzle? I like that.

Maggie
It’s because my students were starting to find my TikTok. They would come into home room and be like, “I saw you on my For You page this weekend.” And I was like, “Ooh…” So I very quickly made my name an anonymous name, but I still wanted it to be connected to my personality. And so Ms. Frizzle was taken (I was just going to be Ms. Frizzle) so I was like, “M.M.,” you know, we’ll go with an alliteration — so Millennial Ms. Frizzle it was. And I just wanted to have a place on the internet to speak where I didn’t have my full name on there. I mean, my name is Maggie Perkins. I don’t hide that. But for a while I was in a really hostile environment and I did need to hide my real name.

Rebecca
But the frizzle is connected…

Maggie
Oh, yeah. So the TV character, I don’t know if it’s just an American show, but she’s this kind of funky teacher who takes care of her students on these field trips, and their school bus transforms to go, like, underwater and outer space.

Rebecca
Oh, yes.

Maggie
And she just wears fun clothes, and her motto is, “Make mistakes, take chances, and get messy.” And I just really like that as a perspective towards life too.

Rebecca
Right, that’s good.

Natalie
Yeah. The Magic School bus is like what school should have been for so many people.

Maggie
Exactly.

Natalie
So that’s pretty neat that you’ve channeled that one. So as you are in the midst of working on your doctoral work and working at Costco and being a mom to two little ones — you’ve said that your littles are like three and four, yeah?

Maggie
Yes, they are.

Natalie
So they’re very little. That’s a lot on the go. You’re wearing a lot of hats. And when we chatted the other day on TikTok back and forth, I had made mention of your Costco experience being, like, really place-based, almost like research in real time, right? And you said, “Can we talk about that on the podcast?” And I was thinking about that, so what is it about that space and place of Costco? So there’s the physicality of the space, but also then the people that make up that space. So what is it that has sort of made you inherently hopeful about this new direction that you are going in your life?

Maggie
Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. It’s very multi-layered. So there’s the physical space, there’s the environment — that’s more than the concrete floors and the huge beams. It’s the people in it, and it’s the posture of the company as well. And the way I call it is like, the culture of care. So we talk about company culture, but at Costco, it’s very pervasive that we exist for the benefit of our members. We don’t exist for a multi-million dollar… I mean, multi-billion dollar corporate grab, right? So it’s interesting to me because it is a multi-billion dollar company, it’s wildly successful, but it all exists for the members. Everything we do is from the perspective of whoever walks through this door, how can we meet their needs, and what is the best value that we can bring them? And in a lot of ways, it’s similar to what a school environment should be. Like, everyone who walks in the door, what are their needs, how can we meet their needs, and how can we make this a really enjoyable experience for them that also benefits them?

And I just really like it. It’s hard to describe what I like about it, but everything about the building is intentional. Costco builds from the ground up, and I’m really lucky to be part of a fresh, brand new warehouse. I was hired for a new location, which means we watched it be built from the ground up. So the position of things is intentional. It’s engineered specifically for Costco’s needs. So it means that, like in education where we do backwards design, they begin with the end in mind. How do they want people to navigate the building? How do they want people to feel? How should people be greeted? How much space do we need to greet people? Just like, every detail is thought of and matters. And that’s just something that I think schools could benefit a lot from, too — is that, at least where I lived, a lot of middle schools (sixth, seventh, eighth graders), they got a hand-me-down old high school building. They didn’t get a building that was made for their needs, that has rooms to be in and places to spread out. They just got a hand-me-down, and you can feel the difference. Students can feel the difference that they’re in a building from the 1960s versus, like, “Look at that high school. They have a beautiful facility. That’s where all the money went.”

Rebecca
I do notice at Costco that it’s quite warm inside. I’m always like, “Wow, this is a huge warehouse, but yet I’m so cozy warm.” Is that part of it?

Maggie
I also feel quite warm, but I’m, like, sweating because I’m working. I don’t know why it’s so warm. Maybe it’s just because of the bodies literally moving through it. But then if you think about it too, just from an engineering perspective, those coolers that all the freezer stuff is in, they’re huge. And so although they’re keeping things cold, they’re generating an enormous amount of heat. And so if you look at the ventilation above them, it’s supposed to be sucking it out. And if you have an older Costco building, then you also have natural lighting — they’ve transitioned now to LED lights, but that natural lighting does kind of incubate like a greenhouse effect inside the Costco.

Rebecca
Interesting.

Natalie
I like that, Becca. That’s a good metaphor. “I’m so warm. It’s like a hug.”

Rebecca
It is like a warm hug in Costco. Although it’s interesting, it’s kind of cool to hear you be so positive, because sometimes I haven’t known what to think of shopping in this big warehouse and buying in such big bulk. Like, should I be questioning that? That’s for another time. Does that kind of get discussed? Like, is this environmentally a good thing, a bad thing?

Maggie
Yeah. Costco is actually very intentional about waste, sustainability, and all of this. And again, it’s present in the physical environment, but it’s also a philosophical stance. So like, in the parking lot of our Costco, instead of having like the greenery and the concrete stuff between the cars medians (and that’s what it’s called), so instead of having grass that needs to be watered and plants that need to be tended to, they are doing the landscaping with different types of rocks and pebbles and arid-type stuff. And so it doesn’t have to waste hundreds of thousands of gallons a year to maintain the beautiful appearance. It’s made in more like a desert-type look.

And then returns like food waste and stuff — so they have partnerships in every city where any food waste that can be goes to the local zoos. So like the bears and the otters and all this, they’re going to be getting food waste from Costco. And then if it can’t go to the zoo, it goes to pig farms, and it’s used for composting too. And then waste that is consumable for humans is partnered with food banks. So like, let’s say somebody returns a pack of Goldfish and we can’t resell those — they ate five bags, they didn’t like them, they returned them. That can be comped out to a local food bank, so that they can go in kid’s lunches and stuff. So that’s just for food returns.

But in terms of other stuff — that like, “Why should we be selling this much?” They are changing the packaging too, so that, like, instead of those hard cases for cashews, they’re selling them in thinner plastic bags. So everywhere they can — there’s like a whole department of sustainability, and Costco is taking measures across the board from literally the ground up to figure out where can we be more sustainable and increase our efforts for sustainability. So, like natural lighting, LED lighting, gray water cycling, Costco does enormous things and we consider this on a global scale. It’s actually really impressive how they’re doing it.

Rebecca
So if you were giving advice to other women transitioning, I mean, did you spend a lot of time researching the kind of company you wanted to be working with? Or is this a trait you have where you find what’s good in where you end up? Because either would be interesting. What advice would you give, or how did you end up in Costco?

Maggie
I ended up in Costco because they were building a new warehouse in my town. And at the time where I had transitioned out of teaching, I didn’t yet have a dream job or something lined up. I mean, I started applying in April of 2022 (so this past April), all the way through July, I applied to probably a hundred jobs — all in, like, ed tech or ed adjacent-type careers. And I was thinking of anything I could do. I was just throwing spaghetti at the wall, hoping something stuck. And I wasn’t paying attention to, like, company goals or seeing if it meshed with my goals because I just needed a job. And I’ve always known the integrity of Costco from a member’s perspective. And so when they started building the Costco in my town, I just applied. Costco kind of happened to me. And when I initially applied, I was like, “This could be a really great job. Maybe it’ll be something even long-term.” And then as soon as I started working for the company, I immediately understood that I want to be part of Costco. I’m not looking for any other careers. I had initially signed up even with a career coach who was going to help me find something long-term while I worked at Costco. And then I very quickly told them, I was like, “We’re on the Costco thing, this is it.”

I don’t think that’s good advice for other people, though. So when you sent those questions earlier, I did jot down a few thoughts about advice for other people transitioning their careers. And I think the biggest one is to listen with your gut and to look for red flags early on. Because we have a different type of intuition, but I think for a lot of women that’s also paired with this excitement as new opportunities. So when somebody says, “This is promising, this is good, here’s an opportunity for you,” me personally, I’m very jumping on board. And so I need to be more cautious. I think I need to be willing to walk away and be willing to say no, and not be so fast to jump on something. And then the other thing is that I had viewed my teacher transition as kind of something I wanted to do, but then it wasn’t until like July or August I said, “This is my whole thing. This is my job now.” And I was treating it as if it was my job. And I think a lot of the time, people treat their transition as their side hustle. And so I would say transitioning, it’s got to be the whole thing. Like, you have to put all your eggs in this basket and have very clearly aligned goals — like backwards design, as a teacher. Like, “Where do I want to be in two years, in five years, and how do I get there?” And if that means walking away from education or walking away from your firm or wherever you are, then that’s what you’re going to do. It’s not your side hustle, it’s the whole thing.

Rebecca
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And can I just say, are you an inherently courageous person?

Maggie
That’s hard to say. So yes and no, but I think a lot of it is because I am neurodivergent and so I don’t view societal structures the same way that neurotypical people do. So something that I do might not be because I’m brave, it might be because I don’t view the rules the same way as other people do. So, like, having babies while in grad school in a pandemic, just jumping headlong into something — I don’t have the same caution. I could benefit from a little bit more caution, I think. So I don’t know if I’m a courageous person, but I do things with regard for my future, and less regard for the immediate consequences. So that appears to be brave — like, quitting teaching and working for Costco, that appears to be a brave transition, but it was just kind of impulsive, too.

Natalie
It does really seem, though, like you are somebody who has taken the time to learn who you are. So, like when you say, “You know, listen to your instincts, watch for those red flags,” I mean, that isn’t maybe as easy for some. And so it’s pretty amazing that you can offer that suggestion, because perhaps it sort of gives somebody else permission to even consider that option. We have developed a resource (and you’ve seen it, so you know), but we’ve developed a resource called The Science of Reframing, and we share tools. Because many people will listen to our show, and they like the concept of reframing, and they’ve heard about it maybe from their therapist or whatever, but then they’re like, “Well, what does it actually mean, though? Like, how can I put it into practice?” So we developed this tool and wanted to sort of offer it to folks to sort of help them get through to the other side of a hurdle with a list of, essentially, resources that they could lean on, pull on, look to as they navigate life.

And so we had sent you that list, and we’re just going to read it through, because the list is long-ish but useful. So one way of reframing a life struggle would be to have somebody’s listening ear, whether that’s a friend or a family member, where they offer no words, just ears. Another would be a trained professional’s words of wisdom. Another tool would be taking a pause — so time alone to contemplate through meditation. Then there was the journaling or painting or art-making tool, which is much more tangible. There’s exercise — so obviously sweat-boosting endorphins. And then some people, teacher types out there might really get into this: diagrams — so actually writing out pro and con lists, like Venn diagrams. Then there’s, for those of us who are really into nature, the natural world, walking in nature. For someone like me, cooking — cooking is actually a tool that really helps me in my reframing. And then conversations with a trusted friend. So not that first one where it’s just the listening, but actually an engaged dialogue. So out of that list, what would you say would be one or two reframing tools that you have used in your transition?

Maggie
I mean, the combination kind of of the one where someone is listening to you, but then also a conversation. I do that a lot. I have a couple of very close friends who, the rapport with us is we’ll say, “Hey, this is what’s going on,” and then she will respond with, “Are you seeking advice? Feedback? Or you just… do you need to just say things?” And so we kind of have that existing as a foundation in our relationship. And she’s also been going through a career transition at the exact same time as me. So it’s been very cool to have that ongoing thread in that friendship where some days I just listen and some days I give her feedback and some days she just listens and some days she gives me feedback. So I would say it’s a very solid combination of the listening and just like, “I’m here, what do you need?”

Natalie
Which is really just finding your people, isn’t it?

Rebecca
That’s cool. That’s cool that you just intuitively together discovered that that’s something that you could name — “I need feedback,” or, “I just need a listening ear.” That’s really cool. I feel like that’s something I have had to navigate with my spouse, but I wouldn’t instinctively think to do that with a friend, a girlfriend, to be like, “Can we practice a more careful conversation?” I mean, you and me Nat, we don’t have to sort of talk that out. But I could see with a girlfriend, it’s not my sister, that would be really useful. That’s cool.

Maggie
Yeah. We definitely owe it to Brené Brown’s podcast, though. Because she was an avid listener of Brené Brown, and she would just reference things that Brené says and I would be like, “What?” And she was like, “Maggie, are you telling me you don’t listen to Brené Brown’s podcast?” This was like the beginning of 2020, and she was like, “We know you can’t afford therapy. You need to be listening to Brené Brown.” So I just started just absorbing so much of these podcasts, and it became like a second language in my relationship with my friend. And it’s been just a really beautiful thing — that she and I want to have a podcast someday, too, where we just talk about that. How, like, our parallel transitions have been supported by this intentionality, and how we grow individually and together and professionally. All these overlaps. But just because we are both in this transition at the same time that we’d like to have more intentional conversations about it too.

Natalie
That’s great.

Rebecca
Thanks, Brené.

Natalie
Right?

Maggie
Thanks, yeah. I know that the research community is somewhat divided on Brené. Like, some people are like, “Oh, yeah, we love Brené Brown.” And some people are like, “Mm…” — but I’m Team Brené. I feel like if it’s benefiting you and if it’s helping you and adding to your life, then go for it. And it’s adding to my life, you know, so I’m team Brené.

Rebecca
Yeah, I am too, I…

Natalie
Well, I was going to say, Bec, that if you went back to episodes like one, two, or three, I think I had a few moments in there of being like, “Meh, Brené,” and Rebecca was totally Team Brené. Which just highlights, right, that people come to… not just therapy, but even to advice, giving and receiving at different points, but we all need each other to kind of practice the process. So I’m Team Brené now. Bring her.

Rebecca
Are you, Nat? Are you, though?

Natalie
A little bit. I’ll give her a go.

Rebecca
You have to go listen to three episodes and then tell me. And tell me which ones.

Natalie
And then have, like, a real opinion. It’s true. It’s absolutely true. Millennial Ms. Frizzle, we appreciate so much that you took this time. We know that you are navigating many little humans in that household who have their own needs, but we are excited that we’re starting this series with someone who has made such a dramatic transition, because I think that not everybody is going to or needs to or feels brave enough to. That courageous piece is definitely in there, but maybe hearing examples of other folks navigating and going through them. I don’t know, it just opens doors.

Rebecca
The one thing that keeps occurring to me (and this is something that we didn’t really touch on this, but just as we close), is that being a teacher, it’s such a label with distinction, almost, right? “You are a teacher.” So is that kind of a funny one for you? And that’s been an interesting part of the transition, to say, “I work at Costco,” which doesn’t have a prestigious label, right? You’re either, you can be a lawyer or you work at a grocery store. And we all have these notions and labels we put on things — what is a good job. So I don’t know if you just want to speak to that, because I just find that might be useful for listeners just as we close.

Maggie
Yes, I’m still having trouble articulating this fully, but it comes down to: so the teacher identity is grounded in this higher moral cause. Like that we help other people, it’s a helping profession. And then we view service professions as divided between moral ones and then consumer ones. And working retail, which is what I do now, technically, is not viewed as, like, a higher moral calling. It’s just, like, a job to get by. But my quality of life is so much higher at Costco than it was as a teacher. And I realized that I was using that dopamine hit of like whenever somebody would say, “Oh, what do you do?” “I’m a teacher.” “I could never, oh my gosh. Good for you.” I got high off that. It’s sort of like if people found out I taught sixth grade, they’re like, “How could you? That’s amazing. Good for you.” And I needed people to feed me that, because otherwise I was going to burn out. Like, I needed other people to affirm my goodness through my identity as a teacher.

And now I know my own happiness because I actually am happy. I’m not relying on other people to pat me on the back and boost me up. And also, I know that I work for a company that I believe in. It has integrity — versus, in school buildings, a lot of shady stuff was going on. School structures are not built on integrity. They’re also built on neoliberal capitalism. Pumping students through and making happy little workers. And so it’s just like I don’t have to claim my identity as a teacher anymore. But I do still introduce my TikToks with my phrase — like, “I used to be a teacher, now I work at Costco,” because I really want to trouble that idea of what’s a morally good job and what’s like, “She’s just getting a paycheck.” Or, “It’s not noble, it’s not a noble profession to work retail.” And I think it is pretty noble to look Mr. Howard in the eye and know that his wife is at home and he’s getting groceries for his family and taking care of her, and notice things about our member’s lives. Or to go the extra step to help a mom who’s got three kids in her buggy and is in a time crunch. I think those human connections are noble and they are important.

Yeah, and also the reason that I start my videos by saying, “I used to be a teacher, now I work at Costco,” that matters to me because it troubles people’s idea of what a high and low paying profession is. Because people think teachers make enough money to live, and they really don’t. And so it’s a commentary on how poorly teachers are treated and how well Costco employees are treated. So I’m probably going to keep using that phrase because I want those conversations to stir up and to bubble up and for people to be like, “Oh, shoot. We’re treating teachers badly enough that they go work at Costco?” But also be like, “Wait, what is Costco doing that’s good enough for a teacher to leave this profession with a master’s degree, eight years of experience, a PhD student — why is she going to work at Costco?”

Rebecca
I find that an interesting discussion, yeah. So thanks for bringing that up.

Natalie
And I like the idea of it bubbling up, too. That it’s not like just sort of a quick answer that’s given. That’s something that we really value on here, is that it’s not like there’s something so immediately able to be taken away and digested and then it’s done. Like, now we get to move on to the next topic. It’s like, “No, I want to sit with that for a while and ponder, and then actually sometimes it even loops back in.” So we may be looping you back in, Millennial Miss Frizzle.

Maggie
Yeah, it would be so interesting to do, like, a check-in in, like, six months or a year, because it’s going to change and evolve. It’s a new chapter in my life, and it’s literally a new Costco building — like, it opens on Tuesday. Like, in two days, we open our doors for the first time to our community, and I get sweaty thinking about that. I get excited thinking about that. So it would be very interesting, as seasons change, to check in, see how the transition’s going.

Rebecca
Yeah, let’s do it.

Natalie
Well, we’re going to take that as permission to ask. Exactly.

Maggie
Yeah.

Rebecca
Good luck with your opening.

Maggie
Thanks. Yeah, I’m so nervous, but it’s going to be fun. Like, there’s good energy in our community about it, because there isn’t one where we are. It’s kind of a rural area. It’s mostly a university town. I’m genuinely excited.