Natalie
Cheers, Bec.

Rebecca
Cheers. That was the sound of us clinking our glasses.

Natalie
Because we’re not quite drunk in LA, but we’re sitting in our bedroom, in our shared room.

Rebecca
In our shared hotel room because we didn’t go to the party to see Paris Hilton DJ.

Natalie
Because we’re old.

Rebecca
I feel really bad about this.

Natalie
I really don’t. I feel excited. I feel really good about the fact that we’re at a stage in our life where we don’t have to go to something that we don’t have the energy for.

Rebecca
I know, because we did so much idea generation today.

Natalie
Oh my gosh, and networking. There was networking happening all over the damn place. Every time I texted Clifford, I was like, “Don’t worry, I’m working really hard.”

Rebecca
I know, which is partly why I feel bad for not going, because Simon…

Natalie
Really wanted you to go network. At a certain point, when the resources are depleted, how do you keep a project going? How do you keep making something new and exciting and sustainable? That’s where I’m at. I feel like I need to reframe that with you.

Rebecca
The hard thing is when you’re at a transition point with something.

Natalie
I guess so, and just the hard thing of creation.

Rebecca
Yes, it did lead to a large discussion over ramen tonight. It was so good, the ramen, though.

Natalie
It was amazing.

Rebecca
We’re downtown LA, and I got here a day early, so I scouted all the places for Nat.

Natalie
Oh, she does this on every trip we’ve ever taken in our whole life. When we were in Oxford, remember when we were visiting mom (who was doing her degree at the time, she was doing her PhD), and you went a few days earlier than I did. Didn’t we stay above that really cute candy shops? Everything smelled like sugar all the time — in downtown Oxford. But you had done all of the scouting, so when I got there, I didn’t have to do any thinking. You knew where the good coffee was. You knew where the organic… I think you were already eating chia seeds at that point in your life, so I just followed along.

Rebecca
I don’t remember that?

Natalie
I do. It was wonderful.

Rebecca
I really like that about myself, now that you tell me that.

Natalie
It’s a wonderful quality, and so you did that here. That’s great. Oh my gosh, when you guys lived in Riverside, all I had to do was hold your baby. That was all I had to do. Elsie had just been born.

Rebecca
Because we had all the places?

Natalie
Oh, you knew everything. It was so wonderful. I didn’t have to do any thinking, any planning. I spend so much of my life planning for others, it was so wonderful to just be taken care of by you. So thanks.

Rebecca
You’re welcome.

Natalie
What we’re doing here feels very…

Rebecca
It’s very nebulous.

Natalie
It’s nebulous, yeah, and I like a lot more control. It does feel a little bit like, “Well, why aren’t people operating on my timelines in terms of how this should all play out?”

Rebecca
Right, and is nebulous even the word? Because I’m just saying we can see what we need to do, or you can see that you need to grow. But I guess it is nebulous too — you can see that you need to get up the mountain, but you don’t know exactly how you’re going to get there, and what will work.

Natalie
And aren’t there clouds?

Rebecca
Is that the right metaphor?

Natalie
Yeah, and there are clouds at the top of mountains, so you often can’t see through. I think it’s a great metaphor.

Rebecca
Thank you.

Natalie
See, you find me all the coffee shops, you got all the metaphors. I don’t know, Bec. It’s an interesting headspace to be in, and I feel like I’m supposed to be the one to be able to reframe, because that’s a supposed skill of mine. Today, I’m feeling a little bit more like, “Oh, my goodness, we’re just taking it all in.” So I’m feeling less reframing and more… maybe just naming that this is hard. Maybe that’s what this is, maybe I just need to reframe this hard moment as simply that and not feel like I have to come up with an answer.

Rebecca
Right. That seems good for you, actually. Just name something as hard. I don’t like it, because I’d like you to tell me how this can get resolved, or what’s the silver lining here.

Natalie
Well, we did say we were going to come up with some SMART goals.

Rebecca
We did say that. Thank you for reminding me of the SMART goals, Nat.

Natalie
So we will come up with some.

Rebecca
Maybe we should tell people what a SMART goal is, because I only learned about a SMART goal four days ago.

Natalie
Oh, really?

Rebecca
Really. Oh, by the way everyone, I got a mentor, because I joined this mentoring and they paired me with a mentor.

Natalie
Oh, who’s your mentor?

Rebecca
Her name’s Kai.

Natalie
Oh, that’s nice.

Rebecca
She’s really neat.

Natalie
So she’s the one that introduced you to…

Rebecca
It’s really late, so I don’t know how to speak about anything in a way that shows excitement. I think I’m reverting to, “Yeah, I have one now. Whatever.” Why am I even telling you that?

Natalie
Because of SMART goals.

Rebecca
Oh, yeah. So then we went to this session where we learned about what the appropriate behaviour of a mentee was, and I was supposed to make SMART goals. They had a chart of what a SMART goal was, and I didn’t know about this. This is a teaching thing, where you all learn about SMART goals? Is that why you know about this?

Natalie
Yeah, it shows up in lots of different professional development sessions.

Rebecca
Well, let me just tell you that as an artist, I never needed to know that. Who was going to teach me about a SMART goal?

Natalie
Yeah, that’s true. Funding bodies, if they were really on their game.

Rebecca
No, they expect you to… I don’t know.

Natalie
You have to figure it out.

Rebecca
So a SMART goal is a goal with measurable deliverables. Is that the point?

Natalie
Yeah.

Rebecca
I already hate it. I really do, I really resist it all. But why do I resist it?

Natalie
Well, just because you don’t like being told what to do. You’re an artist, you like to have freedom.

Rebecca
I do. Although I like what we were saying — because I have so many projects going, I do feel overwhelmed. So maybe a SMART goal… why is it called a ‘SMART goal’? I don’t like the name.

Natalie
Ok, well I’m having a moment here where I have to remind myself what ‘S’ stands for.

Rebecca
Simple?

Natalie
No, I’m going to just look on Google.

Rebecca
Stupid?

Natalie
So we’ve got: specific, measurable, attainable, relevant, and timely.

Rebecca
One of them was we were thinking we would build our Patreon in the next six months.

Natalie
Yeah, and we really appreciate those who have already been supporting us in that way, so that’s amazing.

Rebecca
I really would like to shout out their names. Can you do that?

Natalie
I don’t think so. I think that would make a couple of them uncomfortable, but it is really amazing.

Rebecca
They could all have pseudonyms.

Natalie
Well, then it’s not… ok, what’s our next goal? Well, I think one of the big things we were going to try was partners. We really needed to find partners.

Rebecca
We’re talking about audience-building, building more community.

Natalie
Yeah. Are people actually keen to be in community with us, on our Substack? We have this newsletter that we put out every week, but is there anything that listeners would actually like to hear and then talk through?

Rebecca
Maybe that’s part of what we’re experiencing too, right now, is that our brains are just exploding a bit. I think what we should do is we should stop for now, and then we could come back for part two. What do you think, tomorrow?

Natalie
Sure, yeah. See what kind of energy we have then. Drunk in LA part two — drunk in the day.

Rebecca
So this was drunk in LA — it’s not even.

Natalie
I know, it’s like literally a quarter of a glass of wine.

Rebecca
We’re not even drunk at all. We had sake for dinner. One glass.

Natalie
Yeah, which was delicious. And now we’ve had a little half glass of Bogle Vineyards red, and then tomorrow we’ll do day drunk in LA. Then it’ll just be green juice.

Rebecca
Day drunk in LA with green juice.

Ok, what are we doing?

Natalie
This is part two, Rebecca, of our travelogue. This is our LA travelogue.

Rebecca
Now we are mid-afternoon and not at all drunk. We haven’t even eaten lunch. So it’s all…

Natalie
Hungry and inspired. No, we really are — we just finished talking with Latif Nasser from Radiolab.

Rebecca
For 10 minutes, and he was so inspiring.

Natalie
And generous, oh my goodness. All about being interested in not just our podcast, but our desire to tell stories.

Rebecca
As we interview people. We were walking away this morning going, “Interviewing, is that legitimate if you’re not a celebrity?” Can you even get listenership? Because we know Meghan Markle’s putting out her podcast this summer, so why wouldn’t you just listen to Meghan Markle? She’s so pretty.

Natalie
That would be an interesting feedback piece to get from listeners. Why are you listening to Sister On!? Which just to say is another thing that we’re sitting with here — how to rebrand Sister On! as a new thing that is growing and changed and reframed.

Rebecca
Because we are aware that when we Google other sister podcasts… you had talked about Sister Wives last night.

Natalie
Yeah. It’s very not us.

Rebecca
And so are we identifying ourselves with the wrong… how are you going to come across us, by searching ‘sisters’?

Natalie
I think we’ve come down to the nugget of being about: we’re a podcast that is all about reframing life’s big and small struggles with the goal towards self-improvement.

Rebecca
It’s about our relationships — our relationship to divorce, our relationship to money, or relationship to our children, our relationship to friends.

Natalie
So as to have a better relationship with the world, and with ourselves. That’s where the self-improvement piece shows up.

Rebecca
But it’s not really about our relationship, you and me. It’s not really about that. I mean, you support me — is it about that?

Natalie
We are integral to each other, but I don’t think that ‘sisters,’ as a concept, is necessarily where we’ve continued to sit.

Rebecca
Yeah. I mean, you can get a lot out of our podcast without having a sibling.

Natalie
Absolutely.

Rebecca
Certainly without having a sister — which was interestingly triggered by that podcast that reached out to us to talk about sibling bonds.

Natalie
We didn’t really see a fit.

Rebecca
Well, we were trying to figure out, are we sibling bonds something that we’re wrestling with?

Natalie
I really like you, I think you’re wonderful, but I’m not sure that that is what our podcast is about.

Rebecca
Well, it’s nice, so that’s certainly something that is worth talking about.

Natalie
I don’t think it’s central to every single conversation we have on here.

Rebecca
Right, and it might appear that way with the title Sister On! — which is why we’re thinking of rebranding, everyone.

Natalie
Yeah. So actually, for those of you who have engaged already on our Instagram with name suggestions, we really appreciate it. We did a poll, and we might have a couple more, because we have to dig deep into the world’s archives of what exists already in terms of other podcasts. But it just means that we’re growing. We’re growing and changing, and that feels really exciting.

Rebecca
And we were depressed last night, and now we’re not.

Natalie
Yeah, I was really a little low, and I was also just tired. I just needed to sleep. It’s amazing how everything looks different.

Rebecca
Now we have a manic energy going.

Natalie
Because we’re hungry.

Rebecca
I went to the little food counter.

Natalie
I was interviewing somebody who’s going to be a guest, who’s going to sit and talk with us.

Rebecca
You were doing a pre-pre-interview.

Natalie
I was doing a pre-pre.

Rebecca
We’re all about pre-interviews now, you guys. Latif inspired us. Oh yeah, and I brought back six shrimps and a kombucha. Were you surprised by that?

Natalie
No, I loved it. I thought if anybody’s going to come back to me with something wonderful, it’s going to be my sister, and it was a protein boost. It’s what we needed. We got to that next session.

Rebecca
Natalie is all into the protein boosts, you guys. I have to beg her to eat carbs with me, which you did this morning.

Natalie
And it was lovely. But I do have a protein corner in my car.

Rebecca
You dissed the croissant and then you stuffed it in, which I really liked.

Natalie
Yeah, it’s true. But it wasn’t an actual croissant, for those of you who are in The Junction, exactly. We’ll get home to those at some point soon.

Rebecca
Unless we get COVID, in which case we’ll be here.

Natalie
We’ll be stuck here.

Rebecca
No one’s wearing masks here, so maybe we won’t get home.

Natalie
So part three coming soon. Love you Bec.

Rebecca
Love you.

Travelogue day three.

Natalie
This is a good one. Today was our beach day. Today was our consolidation of all thoughts day.

Rebecca
Yes, we were consolidating. We really were.

Natalie
You, in your introverted ‘I need to re-energize my brain’ space, did a budget sheet in the lobby this morning.

Rebecca
I took a brain break to write a budget. So what does that say about us?

Natalie
I’m not sure that was really a brain break. While I went for one last session of learning.

Rebecca
You went to learn, I appreciate that. And you did, you learned some really good hot tips. You brought back a whole five hot tips which we’re so excited to implement.

Natalie
I’m supposed to specifically ask, “What’s our collateral?” I actually don’t think she used that well in a sentence. I think that’s a little bit awkward, but whatever.

Rebecca
What’s our collateral — I don’t remember you saying that one. I learned about feed drops, love that. And there was another one I loved.

Natalie
I think I got stuck on the word ‘collateral,’ in that I usually think of it as ‘collateral damage.’ You know what I mean?

Rebecca
Does she mean, “What’s your asset? What are your assets?”

Natalie
Yeah, I think that’s what she meant. I used to have a department head who would do this all the time, she would talk at the end of a program about the students overcoming — in her mind, she was trying to say the word ‘adversity,’ but she used another word incorrectly in place of that. The best part of it was she had this speech that she used like a few terms over.

Rebecca
Can you not say what it was?

Natalie
I don’t remember, because it was just incorrect every time, and I forget now. But it was so funny that my colleague and I every time would try not to make eye contact because it was being used wrong. So that’s what’s happening here with ‘collateral.’ It was some learning.

Rebecca
We’ve been ending our nights with the glorious hot tub at our hotel, except it’s not hot.

Natalie
No, it’s lukewarm.

Rebecca
It’s like having a lukewarm bath together. It’s having a group lukewarm bath.

Natalie
And everybody so politely says, “Thank you,” when somebody runs over to turn on the bubbles, as if that’s going to change something.

Rebecca
But we all need the bubbles because that’s the only thing making it seem…

Natalie
Even remotely worthwhile.

Rebecca
Oh, and the other thing, we wanted to share about our mansplaining. We were mansplained to so many times on this trip.

Natalie
Oh yeah, specifically in Ubers. That was interesting. Everything in LA… people were stunned that we wanted to walk places, right? That was part of this. We were like, “We really want to go on a good hefty walk.” I don’t know, I just think it’s hilarious that for them, the walk that we were going to do (which was barely a saunter) was in their mind like a marathon.

Rebecca
Ok, I’m just going to pause just to say that everything with you, Nat, is a marathon. So it’s almost like they saw my future.

Natalie
Maybe because we got 18,000 steps in today.

Rebecca
I was like, “I’m so tired. My legs are physically aching.” You’re like, “Can we get up and go?”

Natalie
You know what, Rebecca? This was our chance to move after so much sitting and learning. My brain is full.

Rebecca
I’m just going to say, I could have stood to sit on the beach just a touch longer.

Natalie
What was your line for me today? You specifically said — I wrote this down because it was so beautiful…

Rebecca
Oh, because I found us a good restaurant, because I…

Natalie
Oh yeah, you look things up. You really carefully curated where we could go.

Rebecca
And I’ve done such a good job of every food we’ve eaten, except for one salad.

Natalie
Which was average, but everything else has been amazing.

Rebecca
Nat kept saying how average it was. It was actually a fine salad, everyone, but to Nat, it was so average for that damn plum vinaigrette, which was too sweet. But anyway, because I privilege…

Natalie
You don’t privilege it — you specifically said, and I quote, “I really prioritize…”

Rebecca
I think it’s late. Just know that also we’ve had a weird moment in here with our lock. It’s not been working. So we had like 12 workers in our bedroom when we came down in our towels.

Natalie
I’m not wearing a bra. It’s so many things. “I really prioritize pleasure,” that’s Rebecca’s quote. She says to me, walking down Broadway.

Rebecca
I prioritize pleasure when I am in other cities and it comes to mealtime.

Natalie
Which I really actually love and respect, but it was so perfect that I had to stop in the middle of the road and write it down. It was so great. We’re super excited about all sorts of things. We have decided to rebrand Sister On!, so be excited with us, we hope, about new names dropping soon, a new opening. We’re taping a new opening segment.

Rebecca
Because we just like to…

Natalie
Grow and change.

Rebecca
Innovate.

Natalie
And reflect, and I got to go into the door because more people are back for our door so lucky. So, love you Bec.

Rebecca
Love you. Bye. Travelogue day four, they’re really here. Really gotta go. I’ll let you hear them.

Oh yes, some house business. Don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. This is actually really important. Consider a donation on Patreon if these reframing conversations have supported you or someone you know. And please sign up for our Sister On! newsletter which we send out every Friday. It comes with an original recipe from Nat which, I tell you, her recipes are really good. All the links are in our show notes. Love, Sister On!