Natalie
Hey Bec.

Rebecca
Happy summer. Let’s talk lists.

Natalie
It’s true. Everybody’s got a list these days — like best sandals, best sunscreen, best zit cream to deal with the best sunscreen.

Rebecca
I know. Best books that deal with a certain theme.

Natalie
Specifically to be read on, like, a dock or something.

Rebecca
Yeah. Best dock books, that’s true. Best camping essays.

Natalie
Is that a thing? That must be a thing. That’s totally a thing.

Rebecca
I just made it up, but I’m sure it’s a thing.

Natalie
You should pitch that.

Rebecca
So we have decided we’re just jumping on this, and we are going to make our own summer series of Reframeables lists. Yes?

Natalie
Yes, and we’ve chosen four different themes.

Rebecca
Tell me.

Natalie
Water, heat, nostalgia, and growth.

Rebecca
Love it.

Natalie
And we’re going to curate more than just simple lists for all of our beloved listeners.

Rebecca
Because we are not simple people. We’re going to share a poem, a favourite song related to the theme, and then…

Natalie
Either essays or texts. We’re going writ large here.

Rebecca
And some fun summer items as well, building on our Life-Hacks and Enhancers series that we do over on Patreon.

Natalie
Yeah. Because we think that it’s important — you know, there’s something empowering in a good list. That you don’t have to do all the thinking for yourself, that somebody else could do a little bit of thinking for you, and you just dive in.

Rebecca
And you just go to this list for inspiration, or what? What would be another reason?

Natalie
Yeah, I think it really is about — it’s not just inspiration. It’s like inspiration, and then the ability to then do at the behest of someone else’s direction. I love a list, so that’s what we’re doing.

Rebecca
Yep. So dive in with us, as they say on Twitter.

Natalie
I know they often say, “Buckle up.”

Rebecca
Oh, buckle up.

Natalie
I hate it, but we’re doing it. Ok team?

Rebecca
Buckle up.

Natalie
Buckle up. We’re diving into our first Reframeables summer list — about water.

Rebecca
Ok, so Nat, just as we start this summer list — because this is a very different summer for you.

Natalie
It is.

Rebecca
Do tell.

Natalie
So I retired, literally — like, left a 20 year career with the TDSB.

Rebecca
Did you hear my big sigh? I’m exhaling with you.

Natalie
Is it an exhale that feels… is there any sort of mournful anything in there? Or is it an exhalation of just relief, or what is it for you?

Rebecca
It’s definitely not mournful.

Natalie
No.

Rebecca
I think it’s an exhale of, “What will this new chapter look like when you aren’t carrying the load that teachers carry for their students?” I guess. You’ve been carrying a big care load, if that makes sense.

Natalie
Yeah, no, it does. Absolutely. I mean, I think that the caregiving load is intense in so many different professions, and teaching is one of them. So that’s for sure. What does it look like to offer care outside of teaching is definitely something I have to now ponder. Thus, a summer list for me, because I want to actually engage in thinking and doing that is maybe not teaching-based — even though I’m still teaching this summer, I got a job with Yorkville University. I’m in their Fac of Ed, teaching masters students. So I’m still doing teaching, but it just looks really different. Adult education’s a whole different world — it’s very much on their time. So I feel like that means I have some time to do… we don’t have a doc, but I’m going to do some doc reading.

Rebecca
So is there an element of teaching in our list?

Natalie
Oh, that’s interesting. I think so. I think that…

Rebecca
We’re always teaching each other.

Natalie
Yeah, exactly, and if other people listen in and feel like they’ve got some direction to take, then that’s pedagogy in action. So why not?

Rebecca
And please share your own items back with us. That would be so exciting.

Natalie
It’s true. You know, I don’t think that you and I spend all of our time doing this work together simply to hear our own voices. It’s why we interview so many guests, right? Because it’s so much fun to listen and learn from other people. But the idea of the back-and-forth, the interplay with our Reframeables community, really is really exciting.

Rebecca
Yeah, that’s the fun part.

Natalie
You and I get really amped when somebody leaves a comment on Instagram or Twitter. Where I get really excited is when somebody likes something or makes a little comment on TikTok. For some reason it makes me feel like I’ve made an inroad into a whole new genre person, because TikTok’s its own animal.

Rebecca
Yeah.

Natalie
But you know what? Our first thing on our water list would relate back to TikTok and Instagram — because this poet, that’s where she became really famous.

Rebecca
Right. Ok, and one thing is — just side note, we’re experimenting with video, and I don’t think you need to look sideways, Nat. Just look straight.

Natalie
Yeah. Ok. I’ll try that.

Rebecca
That’s better. It’s because you intensely want to connect with me, and I’m right here. We can hold hands. I was reading that in a book last night. Yeah, just my hand. If they could just touch. Ok, sorry, our first poem: Rupi Kaur. I don’t read a lot of Rupi Kaur, although I do love their poetry.

Natalie
Well, and my students really read a bunch of their work, and would always bring it into classes — like thought prompts that they had come across. So it says to me that a younger generation of reader is really drawn to Rupi Kaur.

Rebecca
So, as we discovered, we certainly cannot read the whole poem, but…

Natalie
Because of copyright stuff

Rebecca
But this poem Home, so go look up the poem Home.

Natalie
By Rupi Kaur.

Rebecca
But the first line: “I dive into the well of my body, and end up in another world.”

Natalie
And then she goes on to talk about how everything she needs exists in herself. Which reminds me of that conversation we had with Asha Frost, because part of her practice as an indigenous healer was the recognition that medicine was found in herself. So it seems really aligned.

Rebecca
Yeah. I have to sit with it. “I dive into the well of my body, and end up in another world.”

Natalie
Feels very empowering. I could see why a bunch of 18-year-olds are like, “Ok, I’m going to do this.”

Rebecca
“I will do that. I will dive into my…” and actually, that’s making me go off on another train to the — what we were just telling me about? This feels like an intense way to dive into your own body, where you dab?

Natalie
Oh, yeah. Jennifer Gunter, that doctor — that gynecologist who’s really really famous online. She wrote The Vagina Bible, and she said that it’s now become a TikTok trend to dab vaginal fluid on your neck as a perfume. Because somebody out there decided that that would be a way to draw people in. And she’s like, “We don’t operate at that level. We’re not animals in the same way. So whatever you’re doing, it’s not doing the thing you think it’s doing.” So that’s where you went with diving into…

Rebecca
It certainly would be a way to dive into my own body. No?

Natalie
Yes. True.

Rebecca
By the way: yes, we’re in a car. Yes, it’s raining. Yes, we’re at the farm. No, the weather isn’t super summery. But Nat, you said you found that exciting, this weather?

Natalie
I do. I don’t know, I find it all campy.

Rebecca
Yeah, it does feel like camp.

Natalie
Like, not Met Gala camp. But like, you know, literally camp. I opened the door and I smell green — so that’s also water-based. Not a part of the list. Offshoot of the list.

Rebecca
Ok, but back to the list: so our first one was the Rupi Kaur poem Home. So go look that up, dive into your own body.

Natalie
As you will.

Rebecca
As you will. Number two.

Natalie
Ok, this was a song that you discovered by Billie Eilish called Ocean Eyes.

Rebecca
Which — we probably all know that song.

Natalie
I didn’t. You knew it when you heard it? I totally didn’t know it.

Rebecca
Yeah. We’re huge Billie Eilish fans in our…

Natalie
Household?

Rebecca
Car. That’s where we listen to music together. She recorded the song at 13.

Natalie
Yeah, her voice, man. It’s like an old soul. Because that does not sound like a 13-year-old singer to me. I mean, her brother wrote it, right? Finneas wrote it?

Rebecca
Yeah. But the chorus goes: “Can’t stop staring at those ocean eyes. Burning cities and napalm skies. 15 flares inside those ocean eyes. Ocean eyes.”

Natalie
There is something really lovely about that water imagery, but also like — ok, I’m not going to stop looking at you, because it’s really tempting.

Rebecca
Just go — Nat, I’m right here. You speak right to me.

Natalie
I’m just going to do this, I have to move my… you know what? See? Anyhoo, Rebecca, I think that there’s just something really innocent. The love in that song is just so purely about the other. I mean, she’s talking about napalm. That’s not a good thing — and she’s 13. So there’s just so much wrong with what’s happening in the lyrics, and yet the beauty of just this summer crush, of just being so in love. I remember being 15, and us being in… oh my gosh, South Carolina, and there was this lifeguard on the beach, and he was 17, and I was 15, and that was just the most exciting thing in the world — that we were flirting every time I would just walk past his chair. So it sort of has that…

Rebecca
Where was I?

Natalie
You were 13.

Rebecca
What was I doing in South Carolina?

Natalie
You were reading or something, which is great. But I was busy flirting with the lifeguard and his ocean eyes. It was really lovely. So I don’t know, there’s something kind of glittery about that song, in a strange way.

Rebecca
Yeah. Before life gets all…

Natalie
Complicated.

Rebecca
Yeah, young love.

Natalie
So maybe there’s something to sit in that, right? Can the summer be a time to just sort of revel in the beauty of nice weather? You know that it’s hard for me to relax. So this, to me, a really good goal.

Rebecca
Yeah, we had this conversation this weekend (which I appreciated, it was funny) about how hard it is to get into the right position to relax.

Natalie
Mm-hmm. Well, my foot hurts right now, just as a side note, so it’s very interesting.

Rebecca
But this isn’t relaxed. We’re not even trying right now. Right?

Natalie
We’re making art.

Rebecca
That’s right. But, like sitting on a dock, even — takes effort to make sure you’re all lathered up appropriately, and then you can…

Natalie
Then embrace the moment.

Rebecca
For more than ten minutes.

Natalie
Yeah, that is complicated for me.

Rebecca
Our spouses are very good at relaxing. We can learn from them.

Natalie
Yeah, they know how to better just lean into it. Lean into relaxation. So maybe that specific Billie Eilish song can help somebody else to lean into the beautiful glittery summary moment of rest. So Ocean Eyes.

Rebecca
Ocean Eyes.

Ok, number three is a summer item that we discovered on the beach yesterday. We met a friend at the beach, and she showed up with all these fun things, and one of them, it’s called, according to Canadian Tire (that’s where you go to get it, and that’s where I am going — I’m getting one) the OgoSport OgoDisk Mini Kids' 2-Player Bouncy Flying Disc/Frisbee & Koosh Ball Set. That might be the key phrase right there, ‘koosh ball set.’

Natalie
That just takes me back to the Gunter.

Rebecca
It’s true, and then you do a dab and get vaginal fluids on your neck before you play.

Natalie
Oh, goodness.

Rebecca
With the koosh ball set. It’s ok. The name is funny, and it’s fun. Because you’re doing… how do you describe it, Nat?

Natalie
It’s like catch.

Rebecca
It’s like catch, but you use frisbee discs.

Natalie
That have netting on them, and then they are supposed to...

Rebecca
And then the ball is…

Natalie
Coochie.

Rebecca
It’s hairy. It’s coochie — it’s like a hairy cooch ball. But it’s kind of fun because it’s…

Natalie
It’s halfway between catch and badminton.

Rebecca
Yes. And you can’t hit it too hard, or you won’t achieve it.

Natalie
Yeah. I think that the highest back-and-forth — the volley, the rally, was nine, right?

Rebecca
Something like nine, yeah.

Natalie
I think it was Clifford and Elsie, they got to nine.

Rebecca
Or maybe it was Simon and I, because I like to think we won.

Natalie
Oh ok, well good for you.

Rebecca
But that’s pretty fun. I sometimes get bored of playing frisbee with Simon on the beach, but this — you could work up a sweat. It felt kind of exciting.

Natalie
It was a fun challenge. It was a nice way to be on the beach together.

Rebecca
And it wasn’t really about skill so much. You know, frisbee, it’s good if you have some technique, which I don’t necessarily feel like mastering. But this was just…

Natalie
It did feel quite idyllic. It was the thing that if we had caught a little bit of time on the camera would have been really great content.

Rebecca
That’s a good way to put it. Nat, by the way, thank you for being our content creator, because I really feel like the burden falls to you, and you’re so good at it.

Natalie
But I didn’t — I didn’t end up getting any of that content, because I was just enjoying watching. You went so hard for that one shot.

Rebecca
Oh yeah.

Natalie
You literally ended up with sand in your teeth. It was brilliant.

Rebecca
I did, and it’s not graceful to dive into the sand. You really go in with a thud.

Natalie
But it was amazing.

Rebecca
But when you see these beach volleyball players — that was new for me, to realize that it’s not a graceful slide. The sand — stops you.

Natalie
Yeah, it did stop you. Yeah.

Rebecca
So many new things I’m learning.

Natalie
In your mouth. Ok, but that was a very fun…

Rebecca
Koosh ball set.

Natalie
Yeah, definitely a win. Ok, another thing that we’ve come across, for the parents in the group or anybody with young children that they want to be just continuing to build their reading collection over the summer, was an illustrated children’s book called We Are Water Protectors, and it’s by Carole Lindstrom, who’s a member of the Turtle Mountain Band of Ojibwe. Then the artist is Michaela Goade, who’s a member of the Central Council of the Tlingit and Haida Indian tribes of Alaska. So it’s definitely got a south of the border vibe happening, but there was a Marginalian article, so anybody who follows… what did she used to be called? This is Maria Popova.

Rebecca
She was Brain Pickings, which is great, actually. Right there, that could go on your list, too.

Natalie
That’s something to grab hold of. But she now calls her blog The Marginalian, and she found she was focusing on this book.

Rebecca
She always highlights books, and connections between books, which are really interesting.

Natalie
And so she had chunks of the art showcased on this Marginalian article, that we will obviously link in the show notes. So We Are Water Protectors, it just describes a very female-focused celebration of cultural heritage, but the courage to stand up for nature, but water — specifically water.

Rebecca
And we were thinking about that yesterday, as we were sitting on these dunes — sandbanks, and they’ve put up new fences, I think really to let the dunes grow back. So you can’t go as far back on the beach now. And it was nice to see that, nature being protected, and we have the opportunity to be good stewards of nature, and pick up our garbage on the beach. It seems so simple: pick up a few other pieces of garbage while you’re at it.

Natalie
Yeah. I mean, it was kind of wild, right? Because last summer, when we were there as a family, we all really wanted the shade — and so those trees were available to us for shade.

Rebecca
And we wanted to get right in there and…

Natalie
Crush nature.

Rebecca
Nature needed to be crushed so we could be in the shade, yeah.

Natalie
Well, and not even recognizing that that part of the beach was fragile. It’s almost like you need to see the barrier to recognize how you could be potentially interrupting something that needs to grow. If you don’t know what it is, how do you know? So it’s like learning. So that’s what this reading is all about. I think that that book… I loved the visuals, I loved clicking on that Marginalian article and seeing how she was unpacking the text.

Rebecca
And this idea of the black snake.

Natalie
Tell me about that part, I forget that part.

Rebecca
Well, that was in the book — that she keeps referencing the danger is the black snake. So I wasn’t sure exactly if that was referring to humans. White people.

Natalie
Yeah, right. Like the colonizer.

Rebecca
Yeah, please read it and weigh in.

Natalie
So that’s obviously moving from slightly more whimsical glittery into… I don’t know, more teacherly. That was the more pedagogical component of our list.

Rebecca
And then, our final thought — I guess it’s a thought prompt, really — is I think maybe it came out of conversation we had where I was having a lot of trouble getting into the water this weekend.

Natalie
That’s true.

Rebecca
Just being afraid of the cold. Just being wimpy, or something. So then you were just saying, “Just dive in.”

Natalie
Yeah, or like, dip your toe on.

Rebecca
Or what can be found in this other experience of water — if you just, instead of holding back from the water, you just go towards it? Risk.

Natalie
Risk. I think that’s beautiful. Whether you’re diving in or just dipping your toe, whatever is the way that works for you, but get wet.

Rebecca
Get wet!

Natalie
Get wet, and then embrace whatever change comes with the water. I think that was the little life lesson I was giving to myself, anyways, this weekend. Didn’t Violet say, “You make ice packs with water!” Like, it changes form. That was a superpower of water, from her perspective, which I think is so great.

Rebecca
Although she was also repeating last night, “The shower of shame!” I don’t know where it came from, it’s not what we want.

Natalie
We can unpack that one later.

Rebecca
They were watching sports and yelling that. But I also would say, even to myself, if I recognize that I’m holding back from the water for some reason (whatever that image metaphor is for you), that noticing that I’m holding back is also a thing. It’s also an important step. As my therapist would say, “Just notice.” If you’re noticing, you’re three quarters of the way there.

Natalie
That’s beautiful.

Rebecca
So I see myself holding back from the life-enhancing possibility of water. Now I can choose to move towards it.

Natalie
I like this series, Becca. I think… I’m not going to turn to look at you, but I really like this series.

Rebecca
This is my hand.

Natalie
I’m holding your hand.

Rebecca
Finding your hand.

Natalie
In both of our cameras.

Rebecca
But yeah, I think this is fun. I think this is really for — if nothing else, for me to come up with a list that allows me to just ponder slowly.

Natalie
Ponder poetry.

Rebecca
Yeah.

Natalie
Children’s books, music.

Rebecca
Art in general, and then the odd toy from Canadian Tire.

Natalie
Koosh balls.

Rebecca
Ok, happy summer. I love you.

Natalie
Love you.

Rebecca
Hey Reframeables: a little housekeeping. Don’t forget to rate, review, or subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts if you like what we’re doing here on Reframeables. Your feedback really supports this reframing project of ours. Also, please sign up for our weekly newsletter, which comes with a free delicious recipe from Nat. And we have a new segment for our Patreon subscribers: mini-episodes which we call Life-Hacks and Enhancers — our five best things in a week. So check us out over on our Patreon, and consider a donation if these reframing conversations have supported you or someone you know. All the links are in our show notes. Love, Reframeables.